Common path of travel

[Truck3capt]

Can a stairway that connects the first, second and lower level be used to meet the one of the two choices for a way out? The common path of travel that might be an issue is on the first level in a large area of cubicles on the west end of the building. The exits at this level are concentrated at the center of the building and the east (opposite) end of the building. There are no exits at this end of the building.

So your first choice at 70 feet from the corner of the cubicle farm is to the right towards the main entrance at the center of the building. Your second choice is to turn left and enter an unprotected stairwell travel down to the lower level (that is sprinkled) travel to the west approx. 60 feet to an exit that opens into an area well with a stair to grade. This is a remodel to an existing financial services building. Type 5A construction. 2012 IBC and 2006 IFC

Maybe this is fine and I haven't been able to find anything that addresses this specifically in the IBC or IFC commentary. It just seems odd that the second choice we are offering for exiting is into a basement. Have I missed something?

 

[cda]

Well

Is the unprotected stairwell open to three floors?

 

[steveray]

Doesn't sound right....Existing building? Sketch?

 

[north star]

# = #

Truck3capt,

Is sounds as though the 1st Exit choice is compliant [ RE: Table 1021.2(2) ].

QUESTIONS 4 U:

What is the Occupancy Group classification of the basement, ...the Occupant

Load of the basement & the actual travel distance from the West End to

the Exit Discharge ?

Thanks !

# = #

 

[Truck3capt]

cda, the stairwell in question is open to all three floors, The entire building is an existing Business occ, (financial services). They created a training room on the first level but I think they are going to revise the size and layout in order to get the occ load on it under 49. Otherwise just reception, offices and cubicles. They revised and added restrooms on the lower and first level. There is a mailing and packaging area in the basement ,cubicles and private offices.

I think the first exit choice towards the main exit at the center of the building is compliant as one of your two choices for common path of travel. I guess I just didn't know if you could count a stair that is unprotected as one of your two choices within the 75 foot max. Especially if you select that second choice you have to go below grade to the basement to get to an exit.

I'm out of the office right now. Had my knee scoped. When I get back I'll try to see if I can take another look at it and post a sketch. I went ahead and approved it before I went out to have my knee done based on a discussion I had with our plan reviewer in our building department. He didn't think it was an issue when he completed his review.

I'm new to this though, so I thought it might be good to get some other opinions. The Deputy Fire Marshal that handled all of the fire related plan reviews got transferred back to the Operations Division last week . So the fire related plan review duties fell to me because our Fire Marshal has never bothered to try work on that skill set. I'm probably going to be on here more often than I thought when I originally registered. Thanks for your help.

 

[cda]

Suggest highly you take your building department plan reviewer out for a steak dinner and become close friends.

Learn from them

Normally you can have only two floors open to each other.

 

[mtlogcabin]

2006 IFC

1027.1 General.

Means of egress in existing buildings shall comply with Sections 1003 through 1026, except as amended in Section 1027.

Exception: Mean of egress conforming to the requirements of the building code under which they were constructed shall be considered as complying means of egress if, in the opinion of the fire code official, they do not constitute a distinct hazard to life.

Common path requirements in existing buildings is subjective in the fire code and not addressed in the existing building code

 

[ADAguy]

If I read this correctly the interconnecting multifloor open stair connects with grade via a horizontal corridor to the exterior?

Is there a door at the bottom of the stair to the horizontal corridor?

 

[cda]

If I read this correctly the interconnecting multifloor open stair connects with grade via a horizontal corridor to the exterior?Is there a door at the bottom of the stair to the horizontal corridor?

""Your second choice is to turn left and enter an unprotected stairwell travel down to the lower level (that is sprinkled) travel to the west approx. 60 feet to an exit that opens into an area well with a stair to grade."""

sounds like you go down one floor , go across, than up a floor??

 

[cda]

2006 IFC1027.1 General.

Means of egress in existing buildings shall comply with Sections 1003 through 1026, except as amended in Section 1027.

Exception: Mean of egress conforming to the requirements of the building code under which they were constructed shall be considered as complying means of egress if, in the opinion of the fire code official, they do not constitute a distinct hazard to life.

Common path requirements in existing buildings is subjective in the fire code and not addressed in the existing building code

Even on remodel?

""This is a remodel to an existing financial services building"""

 

[mtlogcabin]

Even on remodel?""This is a remodel to an existing financial services building"""

Yes

The existing building code does not address a common path of travel nor does it reference the IBC section that specifically requires the CPOT limitations

The section in the 2006 IFC that made common path subjective has been removed. Common path is not addressed in the IFC 2012 for existing buildings.

 

[Truck3capt]

""Your second choice is to turn left and enter an unprotected stairwell travel down to the lower level (that is sprinkled) travel to the west approx. 60 feet to an exit that opens into an area well with a stair to grade."""

sounds like you go down one floor , go across, than up a floor??

When you get to the lower level the stair is open to an open office area with cubicles. There is no corridor. You travel through the cubicles to the west to an exit door that leads to an open area well with an exterior stair that goes up to finish grade and the new parking lot on the west side of the building. Sorry if this is confusing.

 

[Truck3capt]

Suggest highly you take your building department plan reviewer out for a steak dinner and become close friends.

Learn from them

He's a great guy and is working through a difficult situation in his department as well. The former head of the building department retired about a year ago. He hired in just before the old building department head retired. They have him trying to do plan reviews and supervise all of the inspectors in his department with no official title or real authority. Everyone thought they would fill the old department heads position. It's going on a year and still no word. He's doing the best he can, but things are really screwed up and the political maneuvering behind the scenes has to be frustrating.

That said we both graduated from the same architecture program. He has been at doing plan reviews for about 2 years since leaving the firm. I 've been away from the office for almost 8 years. I've managed to maintain my license while I've been on the fire department, but he's more up to speed on the current state of the profession...and he's been doing plan reviews longer. We get along good and right now misery loves company I think he prefers craft beer to steak though....we get along fine

 

[cda]

Fantastic

Between two architects, you all should build a great situation

 

[cda]

When you get to the lower level the stair is open to an open office area with cubicles. There is no corridor. You travel through the cubicles to the west to an exit door that leads to an open area well with an exterior stair that goes up to finish grade and the new parking lot on the west side of the building. Sorry if this is confusing.

Does not sound something I would approve

Seems like might just exceed travel distance.

 

[Truck3capt]

Thanks cda,

I grabbed the set they still had in our B and Z dept. that hadn't been archived. It looks like the travel distance falls within the 200' max for the B occupancy....barely. Thanks to everyone for taking the time.