Condensate switch

[texasbo]

If only you had a clue as to the man you are speaking about. He has earned his position, he deserves his position. His stature dwarfs all but a few and here you are ready to give him a spanking. Now that's funny!An amendment for every code decision is what you recommend. We amend the code plenty. There is no need for an amendment for such a code decision and if it were, well that's just stupid.

Without an amendment, the CME is making his own code. Look at what I said about your amendment requirement.

Someone should call him on it! How about a respectful discussion. One does not approach authority announcing that they are being "called out." I would lose respect in a flash.

I want as opposed to code requires? I explained that in a post above.

Disciplinary action should be taken ....... Who in the Hell are you.?

This is exactly the kind of thing that gives our profession a bad name.

Print a copy of your post, put that sentence under it and get it framed.

Wow. That just about sums it up. Because "the man" has "earned respect", he gets carte blanche to make decisions to prohibit something specifically allowed by your code? Now there's a joke...

There's no reason to amend the code if you're going to prohibit something that is SPECIFICALLY allowed by it? The joke just keeps getting funnier!

"How about a respectful discussion?" Well, that's what we've been trying to get, but instead, all we get are pictures and vague comments about you not allowing it, with no reason why you can legally prohibit it. Give us something tangible, as we've asked for, like what code you're under, or an amendment, and we're cool.

Otherwise, if you guys are prohibiting items that the code permits, just because you don't like them, then you're just another heavy handed, corrupt, out of control department like we often read about in the papers.

 

[texasbo]

CA 2011 Mechanical Code

Well looky there. I guess that's a start. You going to just let us do the work, or show us where it says the devices are prohibited?

Edit: well, from what I could find, Cali adopted the full set of 2009 I-Codes effective January 1, 2011. So until we get better information from someone who actually enforces these codes, that's all I have to go on.

So, we're left with a man who "earned his position", and whose "stature dwarfs all but a few", apparently making unilateral decisions to prohibit something that the code specifically allows.

Come on, man, if you're going to post something, and tell us you don't allow it, at least be able to speak intelligently about it when you are questioned.

 

[texasbo]

Sophomoric remarks make me wonder if you are worth a reply. The remarks you've made in a previous post clinch it for me. I'll stay out of your way, you stay out of mine.

Let me make something very clear: I most certainly will not "stay out of your way", when you decide to throw something out on this forum, and then can't even intelligently answer questions about it when asked.

I most certainly will not "stay out of your way", when you offer up "earned position" and "stature that dwarfs" as sound reasons for excusing someone from complying with the law.

It's not asking too much to expect you to be able to actually answer questions about stuff you throw out here. If you can't even do that, then you might as well just permanently inhabit the "off topic" sub-forum and play patty cake.

 

[texasbo]

ICE, where are you buddy? You told us that your "chief" doesn't allow secondary condensate float shut-off devices, and several of us wanted to know if your code prohibited them, or if you did it by ordinance. Well, which is it? You followed up with a cryptic post that you're under the 2011 California mechanical code, and from what I can tell, that's the 2009 IMC, so I assume you have a local amendment that overrides your state code, no?

If you don't know, how about putting your "chief" on the line? You know, the guy who's "earned his position", and who's "stature dwarfs all but a few"?

Inquiring minds want to know, ICE, or Tigerloose, whichever you prefer, how you have legally been prohibiting these devices; some of us might like to adopt a similar ordinance to the one you've adopted prohibiting these IMC approved devices.

I checked your website, and couldn't find anything under "dirt daubers", "rats" , "intergallactic" or "stature", so I need some direction. Should I call some of your local HVAC contractors? I'm sure they could point me in the right direction.

Or, you could just cite the Cali Mechanical Code, and/or your local amendments, and put this whole thing to bed. And my response will be: "was that so hard?" By the way, is your "Chief", you know, the guy with all the "stature", a registered engineer in the state of California?

Edit: Of course, you know that I know the answers to all of the rhetorical questions above. I will say, in the interest of full disclosure, that I truly enjoy your photos, and for the most part, I think your narrative adds to this forum. I mean that sincerely. However, I don't enjoy bullsh!t, and I refuse to tolerate building departments who make up their own rules; that gives our entire profession a bad name.

 

[Codegeek]

you're under the 2011 California mechanical code, and from what I can tell, that's the 2009 IMC

Actually the 2010 California Mechanical Code is the latest and greatest and it's based on the UMC, not the IMC.

 

[mtlogcabin]

It is the same lanquage as the 2009 UMC. Gravity drains that discharge to the exterior do fail in cold climates (they freeze) They fail in warm climates due to algee and insect nests so we have allowed the float switches for years. As I said ealier I see how one could reach the conclusion that a float switch in not allowed because it is not specifically mentioned but they can be approved under alternate means and methods.

309.0 Condensate Wastes and Control.309.1 Condensate Disposal.

​

Condensate from air washers,air-cooling coils, fuel-burning condensing appliances, and theoverflow from evaporative coolers and similar water-suppliedequipment or similar air-conditioning equipment shall becollected and discharged to an approved plumbing fixture ordisposal area. If discharged into the drainage system, equipmentshall drain by means of an indirect waste pipe. Thewaste pipe shall have a slope of not less than VB inch per foot(10.5 mm/m) or 1 percent slope and shall be of approvedcorrosion-resistant material not smaller than the outlet size asrequired in either Section 309.3 or 309.4 for air-cooling coilsor condensing fuel-burning appliances, respectively. Condensateor wastewater shall not drain over a public way.

​

309~2

​

Condensate Control. When a cooling coil or coolingunit is located in an attic or furred space where damage mayresult from condensate overflow, an additional watertight panof corrosion-resistant metal shall be installed beneath thecooling coil or unit top to catch the overflow condensate dueto a clogged primary condensate drain, or one pan with astanding overflow and a separate secondary drain may beprovided in lieu of the secondary drain pan. The additionalpan or the standing overflow shall be provided with a drainpipe, minimum % inch (19.1 mm) nominal pipe size,discharging at a point that can be readily observed.This requirement is in addition to the requirements inSections 309.3 and 309.4.

​

309.3 Condensate Waste Sizing.

​

Condensate waste pipesfrom air-cooling coils shall be sized in accordance with equipmentcapacity as follows:

​

TABLE 3-1MINIMUM CONDENSATE PIPE SIZE

​

EQUIPMENT CAPACITY MINIMUM CONDENSATEIN PIPE DIAMETERTons of

​

(kW)

​

Inches (mm)Refrigeration

​

Up to 20 (Up to 70.34)

​

% (20)21-40 (73.85 - 140.67) 1 (25)41- 90 (144.19 - 316.6) I1f4 (32)91 - 125 (320.03 - 439.6) lYz (40)126 - 250 (443.12 - 879.2) 2 (50)

​

The size of condensate waste pipes may be for one unitor a combination of units, or as recommended by the manufacturer.The capacity of waste pipes assumes a one-eights

​

44

​

(\Is)

​

inch per foot (10.5 mmlm) or 1 percent slope, with the piperunning three-quarters (%) full at the following conditions:Outside Air - 20% Room Air - 80%DB75°F(24°C)Condensate drain sizing for other slopes or other conditionsshall be approved by the Authority Having Jurisdiction.

​

309.4 Fuel-Burning Appliance Condensate Drains.

​

Condensatedrain lines from individual fuel-burning condensing appliancesshall be sized according to the manufacturer'srecommendations. Condensate drain lines serving more thanone appliance shall be approved by the Authority Having Jurisdictionprior to installation.

​

309.5 Plastic Fittings.

​

Female PVC screwed fittings shall beused with plastic male fittings and plastic male threads only.

​

310.0 Personnel Protection.

​

A suitable and substantial metal guard shall be providedaround exposed flywheels, fans, pulleys, belts, and movingmachinery that are portions of a heating, ventilating, or refrigeratingsystem.

​

311.0 Heating or Cooling Air System.311.1 Source.

​

A heating or cooling air system shall beprovided with return air, outside air, or both. A heating orcooling air system regulated by this code and designed toreplace required ventilation shall be arranged to dischargeinto a conditioned space not less than the amount of outsideair specified in Chapter 4.

​

311.2 Air Filters.

​

Air filters shall be installed in a heating,cooling, or makeup air system. Such filters shall comply withthe standard, Air Filter Units, Test Performance of, that isreferenced in Chapter 17, as Class I or II filters.

​

Exception:

​

Systems serving single guest rooms or dwellingunits shall not require a listed filter.

​

311.3 Prohibited Source.

​

Outside or return air for a heatingor cooling air system shall not be taken from the followinglocations1) Closer than ten (10) feet (3,048 mm) from an appliancevent outlet, a vent opening of a plumbing drainage system,or the discharge outlet of an exhaust fan, unless the outletis three (3) feet (914 mm) above the outside-air inlet.(2) Where it is less than ten (10) feet above the surface ofany abutting public way, driveway, sidewalk, street, alleyor driveway.(3) A hazardous or insanitary location or a refrigerationmachinery room as defined in this code.(4) From an area, the volume of which is less than 25 percentof the entire volume served by such system, unless thereis a permanent opening to an area the volume of which isequal to 25 percent of the entire volume served.

​

2010 CALIFORNIA MECHANICAL COD

 

[texasbo]

Thanks codegeek and MT; I also found it here: http://www.iapmo.org/Pages/2010CaliforniaPlumbingCode.aspx

Would have been nice to get that info from the OP when the question was first asked, instead of "we have a chief mechanical engineer that prohibits them"...

 

[ICE]

ICE, where are you buddy? You told us that your "chief" doesn't allow secondary condensate float shut-off devices, and several of us wanted to know if your code prohibited them, or if you did it by ordinance. Well, which is it? You followed up with a cryptic post that you're under the 2011 California mechanical code, and from what I can tell, that's the 2009 IMC, so I assume you have a local amendment that overrides your state code, no?If you don't know, how about putting your "chief" on the line? You know, the guy who's "earned his position", and who's "stature dwarfs all but a few"?

Inquiring minds want to know, ICE, or Tigerloose, whichever you prefer, how you have legally been prohibiting these devices; some of us might like to adopt a similar ordinance to the one you've adopted prohibiting these IMC approved devices.

I checked your website, and couldn't find anything under "dirt daubers", "rats" , "intergallactic" or "stature", so I need some direction. Should I call some of your local HVAC contractors? I'm sure they could point me in the right direction.

Or, you could just cite the Cali Mechanical Code, and/or your local amendments, and put this whole thing to bed. And my response will be: "was that so hard?" By the way, is your "Chief", you know, the guy with all the "stature", a registered engineer in the state of California?

Edit: Of course, you know that I know the answers to all of the rhetorical questions above. I will say, in the interest of full disclosure, that I truly enjoy your photos, and for the most part, I think your narrative adds to this forum. I mean that sincerely. However, I don't enjoy bullsh!t, and I refuse to tolerate building departments who make up their own rules; that gives our entire profession a bad name.

Allow me to concede on all points. Since you know where I work your comments take on a new meaning for me.

I am sorry that I posted this thread. You have my word that I won't do it again. In parting I would ask that you let me off the hook and not follow through with your suggestion about contacting contractors in my area. That's a punishment that doesn't fit the crime.

 

[texasbo]

Allow me to concede on all points. Since you know where I work your comments take on a new meaning for me.I am sorry that I posted this thread. You have my word that I won't do it again. In parting I would ask that you let me off the hook and not follow through with your suggestion about contacting contractors in my area. That's a punishment that doesn't fit the crime.

Whoa - I hope your comments are facetious, as mine were. If you're serious, then chill out; that would be way below the belt, and I would never, ever do something like that. Besides, it looks as if, whether you're fully aware of it or not, that the mechanical code that you are under does not outright recognize these switches. Come on, you of all people can appreciate some sparring. Peace, ICE.

 

[Paul Sweet]

This thread was very helpful to me. My A/C stopped running a week or so ago. The technician thought a clogged filter choked the airflow and caused it to stop. A couple days later it stopped running again. The technician had just come back when I was reading this post. I called home and asked my wife to have him check the condensate pump. He found the line was plugged, cleaned it out, and the A/C has worked fine since.

 

[ICE]

I got the point across and now I am done with it.

 

[texasbo]

Wow. Thanks for the sanctimonious wall of words; spare us the drama. All I can say is that you've got problems, buddy.

Well, no, of course that's not all I can say. I can also say this: is it unreasonable to ask for a code reference on a code forum? Maybe it's ok for you and/or your department to say that "you can't do it because the chief says you can't do it". That doesn't cut it with most folks, and it doesn't cut it with me.

And all of the comments I made were done so with the qualification that you had no amendments and/or your code allowed the float switches.

Because you gave us nothing else to go on - nothing rational, that is.

But it's so much more dramatic to play the mistreated martyr, and it's so much more fun to leave out the "ifs" when you're quoting someone's posts, isn't it.

Question mark omitted intentionally.

 

[Builder Bob]

Time out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 24 hours time out charged to the general population of the BB that doesn't need the non-code related correspondence between two parties.......

Gentlemen, there is a place and a time to discuss differences of opinion. Please keep the differences of opinion to code language and interpretation of code as it relates to the original question.

This BB is not the place or the time to air dirty laudry.

May I offer the private conversation or e-mail features of the board if ya'll wish to persue the diffeences of opinion amonst yourselves.

PS - Speaking from experience from a different bullitien board from cash cow........

 

[Codegeek]

I'm with Builder Bob, this is not the forum for getting into personal attacks. If ICE and texasbo want to have a discussion between the two of them, take it elsewhere; I don't care where, but not here.

I've had what has felt like a personal attack on myself and as hard as it was to ignore it, I did. Let's move on gentlemen. Agree to disagree and let it drop.