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CPVC pipe exposed in crawl space

Discussion in 'Residential Fire Codes' started by TheCommish, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. e hilton

    e hilton Bronze Member

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    Interesting. So if max spacing is 15 ft, this says you cannot install them 14 ft apart.
     
  2. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    There is a maximum spacing for a sprinkler and a minimum spacing for a sprinkler.

    That depends on the model used. So not sure the question, but if the max is 15 yes you can put them closer together, but there is also a minimum spacing they have to be apart.
     
  3. TheCommish

    TheCommish Sawhorse

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    Photo of the install sorry about the out of focus
    crawl space with outside locked access
    tank an pump for fire sprinkler system
    I joist 19.5 OC, 11 7/8 deep, fiberglass insulation to be installed
    foundation wall insulated
    upload_2019-11-4_8-47-17.png
     
  4. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    I vote NO

    Not allowed per manufacture install spec for Exposed pipe!!!


    Now if they provide the complete installation instructions, along with listing,,,, and highlight in it, where the manufacture says it is allowed,,,

    Than I would look at it and either approve or disapprove,,,, or even call the manufacture tech guy for a ruling, pictures also sent to them.
     
  5. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    The other problem is when I buy the house all my combustible items will be stored down here.
     
  6. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    From 2013 NFPA 13D all commentary

    I would say you basically have a basement::

    Residential sprinklers are generally not listed for use under exposed wood joists installed close together, which is a common ceiling configuration in an unfinished basement. NFPA 13D requires these unfinished basements to be protected with sprinklers because such spaces are frequently used for storage or the installation of mechanical equipment, which can be an ignition source. Also, there is a possibility that basements or portions of them will be finished in the future and incorporate bedrooms, family rooms, or similar living and sleeping spaces. Subsection 8.2.4 provides guidance on how to provide sprinkler protection for these spaces in a reasonable manner, even though sprinklers are not specifically listed for use under exposed wood joists.

    Residential sprinklers are not typically allowed for use under exposed wood joists, because the joists might delay the activation of the sprinklers and create a situation where the residential sprinklers do not activate in time to provide the necessary level of life safety. However, because the basement is unfinished, the probability is relatively low that someone is sleeping in the basement, and the greater level of sprinkler protection is not likely to be needed. It is expected that the residential sprinklers under the exposed wood joists would activate in a time sufficient to control the fire and allow occupants the time necessary to evacuate from other portions of the dwelling.

    Where the basement is converted into a livable space where people could be sleeping, it is expected that the basement ceiling would be finished with sheetrock or tiles to cover the exposed wood joists. Having the sprinklers positioned in anticipation of a finished ceiling allows the basement to be converted without a sprinkler contractor having to come back and relocate the sprinklers. Of course, prudence needs to be exercised when installing the ceiling to make sure that the existing sprinklers are not damaged.

    The requirement regarding the type of pipe in 8.2.4 ensures that this section is not used to violate the listing of special types of pipe material. Metallic pipe is not required to be protected, so it can be installed exposed below the joists. However, nonmetallic pipe is generally required to be protected (covered) unless its listing allows it to be installed exposed. So, in order to apply this provision with nonmetallic pipe, the provisions of the pipe’s listing need to be followed.

    FAQ: Does the homeowner need to state an intention to finish the basement in order to use 8.2.4?

    The assumption of NFPA 13D is that the potential exists for all unfinished basements to someday be finished. Therefore, a homeowner is not required to specifically state that they are going to someday finish the basement in order to apply 8.2.4. When bidding and planning the sprinkler installation, the sprinkler contractor can assume that the basement will someday be finished and that a ceiling will someday be installed to cover the exposed joists.



    8.2.4 Basements Without Ceilings.
    In basements where ceilings are not required for the protection of piping or where metallic pipe is installed, residential sprinklers shall be permitted to be positioned in a manner that anticipates future installation of a finished ceiling.
     
  7. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    IRC a little vague::

    [RB] BASEMENT. A story that is not a story above grade plane. (see "Story above grade plane").

    [RB] BASEMENT WALL. The opaque portion of a wall that encloses one side of a basement and has an average below grade wall area that is 50 percent or more of the total opaque and nonopaque area of that enclosing side.
     
  8. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    It has been about 26 years since a did a house tank.

    I did not think it had to be protected back than, and not seeing in 13D

    That it has to be protected today.



    Just looking to hook that fish
     
  9. TheCommish

    TheCommish Sawhorse

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    The end of the story
    The installer came up with a letter from UL that the piping is list to be in the crawl space exposed and NFPA 13D, 2013 edition referenced by MA.

    To whom it may concern,
    Spears FlameGuard CPVC Pipe is UL listed in File EX3769, for all uses covered in its Installation instructions
    dated October 30, 2018 and addendums.

    On page nine of the instructions it states:

    NFPA 13D and NFPA 13R permit the omission of sprinklers in combustible, concealed spaces. Spears®
    FlameGuard® CPVC Fire Sprinkler Products can be installed in these areas when sprinkling residential
    occupancies in accordance with these standards.

    Which is per NFPA 13D, 8.3.5;
    Sprinklers shall not be required in attics with or without storage, penthouse equipment rooms, elevator machine
    rooms, concealed spaces dedicated exclusively to and containing only spaces, elevator shafts, crawl spaces,
    and other concealed spaces that are not used or intended for living purposes.

    The installation of Listed Spears FlameGuard CPVC Pipe and Fittings in Crawl Spaces without sprinkler
    protection is covered under their UL Listing.
     
    my250r11 and Inspector Gift like this.
  10. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Yea, maybe

    I am not sure what you have falls under the exception????

    It seems this falls more under basement, ??

    Anyway, just make sure you have plenty of copies of this in the file, if something goes wrong.
     
  11. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    You are not looking at a “ Combustible Concealed Space”
     

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