• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

CSST, you gotta love this stuff!

SCBO1

SCBO1

REGISTERED
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
4,621
Location
MID WEST
Plumber: "Bonding, WTH are you talking about? I'm not a electrican!"

Electrician: "Thats the plumbers problem, not mine!"

CSST (brand name witheld) Info sheet for CSST: Owner should confirm with an electrican or construction specialist that each continuous metallic system in a structure has ben bonded and grounded by an electrical professional in accorance with local building codes.

This looks like my problem!

Q. Where is the best place to see the CSST bonded and where it can viewed at any time?

pc1
 
Should be in the manufacturers specs. I know a few years back there was a rush to get specs out on bonding CSST, I think typically it is bonded at a fitting.
 
The bonding jumper is to be accessible, attached to the CSST fitting, steel pipe or ridged pipe then to where?

Where do you typically see this connection in the house?
 
Pcinspector1 said:
The bonding jumper is to be accessible, attached to the CSST fitting, steel pipe or ridged pipe then to where? Where do you typically see this connection in the house?
Click to expand...
The CSST should be bonded to the electrical service disconnecting means.

Chris
 
* * * *

Chris,



NEC article number or IRC section please! Ya know, ...for clarity. :cool:



* * * *
 
A few years ago most if not all of the CSST manufacturers installation guides are to be consistent with the new gas codes;

2009 IRC G2411.1.1 (310.1.1) CSST. Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building. The bonding jumper shall be not smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.

Bond at the house side of the gas meter where it enters, not entered the building. The other end of the "bonding" conductor can clamp to the closes or convenient grounding conductor or electrode.

NFPA could not agree on a consenses for 780; lightning protection & 70 equipment bonding.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Are all of these locations allowed?

1)Grounding bar in the breaker box?

2)Grounding rod outside for service?

3)Water pipe ground inside the house near entry?

4)or anywhere on the metallic water line?

But accessible!
 
Francis Vineyard said:
A few years ago most if not all of the CSST manufacturers installation guides are to be consistent with the new gas codes; 2009 IRC G2411.1.1 (310.1.1) CSST. Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building. The bonding jumper shall be not smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.

Bond at the supply side of the gas meter where it enters, not entered the building. The other end of the "bonding" conductor can clamp to the closes or convenient grounding conductor or electrode.

NFPA could not agree on a consenses for 780; lightning protection & 70 equipment bonding.
Click to expand...
Thanks Francis: I do not regularly perform electrical inspections, but missed this when being trained by our Electrical Inspector.

http://www.toolbase.org/pdf/techinv/csst_lightningconcerns.pdf
 
Pcinspector1 said:
Are all of these locations allowed?1)Grounding bar in the breaker box?

2)Grounding rod outside for service?

3)Water pipe ground inside the house near entry?

4)or anywhere on the metallic water line?

But accessible!
Click to expand...
Take a look at 250.104(B) for the location where the gas piping can be bonded.

(B) Other Metal Piping. If installed in, or attached to, abuilding or structure, a metal piping system(s), including

gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be

bonded to the service equipment enclosure; the grounded

conductor at the service; the grounding electrode conductor,

if of sufficient size; or to one or more grounding electrodes

used. The bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s) shall be

sized in accordance with 250.122, using the rating of the

circuit that is likely to energize the piping system(s). The

equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely

to energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the

bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding

jumper(s) shall be accessible.
Click to expand...
Chris
 
I put the responsibility on the electrician. I had the same issues about a year or so ago. I didn't understand what the big deal was about who does it.

Me: Do you bond the water main?

Electrician: Yes.

Me: So?

NY requires it where the gas main enters the building. It needs to be bonded to the steel nipple, not to a CSST fitting or (never seen this one... but) by scraping off the plastic and bonding to the CSST itself.

GasTite has had that requiement in their instructions for a while. TracPipe was a little fuzzy a while ago, but I believe it is in there now.

THere was another CSST (had a gray coating) that supposedly didn't have to be bonded, but code says CSST must be bonded, so they ended up doing it anyway.
 
Found this at another site:

Excerpts from a slide presentation on CSST. These rules apply in New York State.

"G2411.2 (310.2) Gas pipe bonding - systems that contain CSST. A gas piping system that contains any corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) shall be electrically continuous and shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building or structure. No portion of the gas piping system shall be used as or considered to be a grounding electrode or a grounding electrode conductor. CSST shall be installed and bonded in accordance with this section G2411.2, and the stricter of: (a) the requirements set forth in the CSST manufacturer’s installation instructions, or (b) the requirements set forth in Sections G2411.2.1, G2411.2.2, G2411.2.3, and G2415.5.

"G2411.2.1 Where the electric service for the individual installation is more than 200 amperes, the bonding jumper size shall be determined in accordance with Table E 3503.1, and shall be permanently connected to the grounding electrode system.

"G2411.2.2 Bonding clamp. The bonding jumper shall be connected to the gas piping system with a bonding clamp that is listed for the material of the bonding jumper and for the material of the component of the gas piping system to which the bonding clamp is attached. The bonding clamp shall be attached to the gas piping system at a point which is inside the building or structure in which the gas piping is installed, on the downstream side of the gas meter or regulator, in an unconcealed and readily accessible space, and as close as practicable to the point where the gas service enters the building or structure.

The bonding clamp shall be attached to a segment of metallic fuel gas pipe which (a) is a component of the gas piping system, (b) is electrically continuous with all CSST components of the gas piping system, © is made of steel or wrought-iron, (d) complies with Section G2414.4.2 of this code and with all other applicable provisions of Section G2414 of this code, and (e) is not less than 3 inches (76 mm) in length.

Neither the CSST nor the brass hexagonal nut on the CSST fitting shall be used as an attachment point for the bonding clamp.

"G2411.2.3 Prohibited uses. CSST shall not be supported on or by other electrically conductive systems including copper water pipe, electric power cables, air conditioning and heating ducts, communication cables and structural steel beams. Electrical wiring, including the bonding jumper, shall be supported and secured independently of the CSST so that it does not come in contact with the CSST."
 
Pcinspector1 said:
Plumber: "Bonding, WTH are you talking about? I'm not a electrican!"Electrician: "Thats the plumbers problem, not mine!"

CSST (brand name witheld) Info sheet for CSST: Owner should confirm with an electrican or construction specialist that each continuous metallic system in a structure has ben bonded and grounded by an electrical professional in accorance with local building codes.

This looks like my problem!

Q. Where is the best place to see the CSST bonded and where it can viewed at any time?

pc1
Click to expand...
Currently this is an ICC and NFPA 54 gas code requirement specific to CSST lightning protection, not an electrical code and yet it is usually an electrician that is qualified. But electricians may not be trained with the CSST manufacturer specific installation methods and listed parts. I’m aware some AHJ will require two separate permits, gas/mechanical and an electrical for installation because of these issues.

I keep latest copies of each CSST manufacturer’s installation guides in my vehicle and write down the issue date and page number to ascertain the proper correction is made for us both. I’m not surprise when they call my office and ask where to get a copy.

One concern made aware to me is the inter-changing of use one manufacturer’s fittings with another manufacturer’s pipe.
 
* * * *

From the 2006 IRC: Section E3509.7:

"Bonding other metal piping.

Where installed in or attached to a building or structure, metal piping systems,

including gas piping, capable of becoming energized shall be bonded to the service

equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding

electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or to the one or more grounding

electrodes used.......The bonding jumper shall be sized in accordance with Table

E3808.12 using the rating of the circuit capable of energizing the piping......The

equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is capable of energizing the

piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means......The points of

attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible."

* * * *
 
north star though NEC bonding installation is similar the methods of sizing and placement it does not completely satisfy the lightning protection required for CSST gas tubing. It is done for a different purpose.

From a 2009 article referenced; http://www.iaei.org/magazine/?p=4186

“The scopes of NFPA 54 and NFPA 70 are not the same and address different important issues. The NEC rules address fire and shock hazards for persons and property. The bonding requirements for other metal piping systems in the NEC protect the piping system from the electrical system within the building. NFPA 54 covers safety and performance of gas piping systems, including addressing safety concerns. The recent revisions in NFPA 54 Section 7.13 result in new bonding requirements in response to serious issues related to CSST piping system failures and losses from subsequent gas leaks. NFPA 54 includes the new, more restrictive bonding requirements that are an effort to protect specific piping systems that are known to be vulnerable to the effects of lightning.”

“Attempts were made to revise the 2011 NEC metal gas piping bonding rules so as to become consistent with NFPA 54-2009. CMP-5 rejected these proposals…”
 
Let's see if I got this: GAS meter steel pipe enters building then on the inside changes to CSST then to the appliance. The Brass or Copper pipe connector would be connected outside on the steel pipe with the copper ground wire going to the electrical meter disconnecting means (breaker panel ground) or ground rod connected with another brass or copper connector.

Does that sound right?

The Cable TV, the phone system and now the CSST all relying on that service ground rod!

Hum
 
Tracpipe Installation Instructions:

Notes:

a. If possible, avoid running the bonding

jumper a long distance through the

building. The connection should be as

short as possible. Gas meter should

be near the electrical service if possible.

If not, the bond can be connected

at any point near the electrical service

per Figure 4-21.

Tracpipe is commonly used in my location. If the gas meter is a long distance from the electrical service, connecting the CSST near the electrical service takes priority over connecting at the gas service point-of-entry.
 
* * * *

Sandman,



In the link that you provided, in the "Approved CSST Installation - example # 2"

photo, are the clamps that are attached on the individual gas lines the ' approved

type ' that permit / promote an electrically continuous bonding path ( i.e. - does the

paint on each gas line need to be removed where the clamps are attached? ).

See Article 250.12 in the `08 NEC. :cool:



* * * *
 
northstar,

Good catch, the video shows the installer using an abrasive sand paper befor he installs the clamp. Here we would have to knock off about a 1/4" of rust to get to a clean part of the piping.

pc1
 
CSST bonded at the point of entry is not only a code requirement, but it saves a lot of wild goose chases. Remember that the clamp must be LAL and bronze if installed outdoors and all black iron outdoors must be painted. Good thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top