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Cure oven, building permit needed?

M

MRRPM

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Messages
21
Location
United States
Hi,
In a manufacturing plant, installing a powdercoating cure oven, is a building permit required? I can see an electrical permit & Fire Marshall permit, but not a building permit.
We're installing a powdercoating oven, our local county is saying we need a building permit, but i say since oven isn't connected to the building, neither is the fire protection, no building permit is needed. We have the prints from the manufacturer of the oven to submit, prints will be provided for fire suppression, and will provide prints for electrical, if needed. Co is wanting an overall stamped engineered drawing with everything all spelled out on it.
I look at it like installing any other piece of equipment, like a lathe, welder, sewing machine, microwave, toaster, TV, grinder, etc. Maybe get an electrical permit, but get a building permit when no building is being built, or modified? I just don't see it.
What would you guys here say?
 
You got it

A piece of equipment

Electrical and fire, maybe mechanical if vented
 
Referencing the 2018 IBC, but is applicable to previous editions, organic coatings are addressed in Chapter 4, Section 418. If you're replacing an existing oven, then there should be no need for a permit. However, if you're adding a new one, especially in an area that previously did not have one, then you're altering the use of the building and a building permit is required.
 
We are adding another oven, directly beside an existing oven, same usage, not replacing, just adding.
Another thought, we have three maintenance men, they do repairs all day long, daily, on machines, building maintenance, vehicles, etc. They do not pull permits to replace a toilet, replace a light bulb, sweep the floor, plug in a welder or toaster. Repairs can cost more than this machine we're installing, no permit. Are we to pull permits to change a lightbulb, or plug in a toaster? If not, and this requires one, where is the line? I don't think there is one, no building permit required to install free standing shop equipment. Maybe an overhead crane, for example, thats part of the building frame, that requires building modifications to install I could see a building permit, maybe.
 
They issue, I'm in NC. They're quoting NC building codes, not county or city, specifically 101.3.2.1 technical code. Which doesn't say anything about equipment installed in a building, not part of the building.
 
101.3.2.1 North Carolina Building Code The provisions of the Building Code shall apply to the construction, alteration, repair, equipment, use and occupancy, location, movement to another site, removal and demolition, or any appurtenances connected or attached to every building or structure, other than one- or two-family dwellings and townhouses.
 
We would not require a permit for this. As you mentioned, it is not part of the building.

As for the cost in relation to building permits... that's not a good way to evaluate if a permit is needed or not. It really depends on what you are doing. You could have a school repaint their entire facility for tens of thousands of dollars and no permit is required, but if they drill a hole in a fire separation, one is required.
 
Yes, I agree for the examples you give.
I do think they are in the wrong here, not sure how they can think that installing equipment could require a permit.
Where would they stop? Would we need a permit to plug in a toaster in the breakroom? Trying to give a simple example to explain my side of reasoning.
I do agree we need a permit for all electrical, and for fire system, but not a building permit.
Also, here in NC some legislation has passed in the last few years, not sure if they have gotten gunshy or what. Here's some wording that may apply:

PART III. CLARIFY OFFICIAL MISCONDUCT FOR CODE OFFICIALS SECTION 3.(a) G.S. 143-151.8 is amended by adding a new subsection to read:
"(c) For purposes of this Article, "willful misconduct, gross negligence, or gross incompetence" in addition to the meaning of those terms under other provisions of the General Statutes or at common law, shall include any of the following:

(1) The enforcement of a Code requirement applicable to a certain area or set of circumstances in other areas or circumstances not specified in the requirement.
(2) For an alternative design or construction method that has been appealed under G.S. 143-140.1 and found by the Department of Insurance to comply with the Code, to refuse to accept the decision by the Department to allow that alternative design or construction method under the conditions or circumstances set forth in the Department's decision for that appeal.
(3) For an alternative construction method currently included in the Building Code, to refuse to allow the alternative method under the conditions or circumstances set forth in the Code for that alternative method.
(4) The enforcement of a requirement that is more stringent than or otherwise exceeds the Code requirement.
(5) To refuse to implement or adhere to an interpretation of the Building Code issued by the Building Code Council or the Department of Insurance.
(6) The habitual failure to provide requested inspections in a timely manner."
SECTION 3.(b) The North Carolina Code Officials Qualification Board shall, no later than October 1, 2015, notify all Code enforcement officials in the State of the clarification to the grounds for disciplinary action enacted by this act.
 
Whoever issues permits for your building will be able to tell you when and for what permits are needed

This forum can give general guidance.
 
Nowhere in the code is it addressed what to call your permits....I personally would call it an electrical permit and be done with it...."WE" used to do 2 permits for all rooftop PV (building and electrical) now we just do one (electrical until I can create a specific PV permit) some Town only have a "building" permit.....Up to the AHJ...I would just make sure we are not covering the work twice...
 
Yes it can, but I am not building a building at all.
What happens when they are wrong?
It wouldn't matter, but if a building permit is pulled, and an engineer is required to draw up drawings to get the building permit, this will run our installation cost way up for no reason. The whole reason for the HB 255 I mentioned above was to promote economic growth, making incorrect decisions and applying codes where they aren't applicable is now willful misconduct, gross negligence, or gross incompetence.
 
steveray said:
Nowhere in the code is it addressed what to call your permits....I personally would call it an electrical permit and be done with it...."WE" used to do 2 permits for all rooftop PV (building and electrical) now we just do one (electrical until I can create a specific PV permit) some Town only have a "building" permit.....Up to the AHJ...I would just make sure we are not covering the work twice...
Click to expand...

Yes, it could be a nomenclature issue, but it doesn't look like it is. They are wanting us to get a building permit, electrical, and fire protection. There would be, or could be other permits depending on what is being installed. For instance, if this was a gas oven, it would need plumbing permit, since gas would be plumbed in.
 
As stated :

Whoever issues permits for your building will be able to tell you when and for what permits are needed

This forum can give general guidance.




There may be some nomenclature disconnect also

Some one may be using “building permit” for everything

Call the locals thier building permit may include or mean electrical permit only


No actual building plans


The answer is not here
 
The AHJ can and should make the determination if a permit is required based upon the information you provide them.

So far, you have not provided sufficient information. How large of an oven is this - is its weight an issue, building construction (combustible, permissible structural loads,etc.), does it block or impede egress, does it alter max occupancy, etc.? Some ovens can have a trailer parked in them, others no bigger than a household appliance.

The AHJ, who probably has more info then us here, will need to consider the scale of this oven to determine what is required.
 
IMHO If it is an oven with an exhaust system as required by the manufactures installation instructions then it would need a mechanical permit. If you are installing a new electrical circuit to operate the oven then an electrical permit would also be required.
 
The oven, unlike a toaster, is a structure you can enter and exit. Is it larger then 120 sq. ft?
There is a life safety issue to consider here, have you checked with OSHA?
 
Yes, this one can have a trailer parked in it. Still not up to the inspector to determine loads or anything structural.
Still no where in code does it say I need a building permit for shop equipment. I am still talking to them about this oven, we will see what they say next.
I know there's no answers on a forum, but there are some other building inspectors on here that may have a different take, or maybe I'm overlooking something.
 
Sounds like similar to a built on site spray booth

Still up to the locals if and what type of “permits” are required,, if any.
 
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