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Delayed Action Closer on a Fire Door?

LGreene

LGreene

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Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,165
Location
San Miguel de Allende, Mexico
A closer with the delayed action feature will hold a door open for a minute or two, when pushed to the 90-degree position. The delay in closing is created by controlling the fluid within the door closer - similar to adjusting the closing speed. If the valves are open, the fluid flows through quickly and the door slams shut. If you restrict the fluid flow, the door will creep closed very slowly.

There is no code or standard requirement that I know of, which requires a fire door to close within a certain number of seconds. The only reference to anything like this I’ve seen is in regard to fire doors that have a hold-open actuated by the fire alarm.

Here’s my question…is it permissible to use a delayed action closer on a fire door? It is not electronic or actuated by the fire alarm, but the hold-open time is limited to a minute or two depending on the manufacturer. The delayed action feature is only activated when the door is pushed open to 90 degrees.

What made me think of this is that someone sent me a photo today of a plunger attached to a door stop. The school where the photo was taken had retrofitted this hold-open device on all of their stair doors. I don’t know how long a plunger would hold open a door, but I would think just for a short time. The idea that a school would need this make sense – the teacher pushes the door open and the rest of the class can go through the opening without holding the door. I’m wondering if we should be specifying delayed action for more doors…I typically just use them on storage rooms and some other rooms in health care where it would help to have a minute to wheel a cart through. It's a relatively inexpensive way to avoid wood wedges.
 
You come up with interesting things

Do you have a link to a plunger

Is it listed?

Strange a fire rated door closure does not have a time limit to close
 
Not the answer

715.4.8.3 Smoke-activated doors. Automatic-closing doors installed in the following locations shall be automatic-closing by the actuation of smoke detectors installed in accordance with Section 907.3 or by loss of power to the smoke detector or hold-open device. Doors that are automatic-closing by smoke detection shall not have more than a 10-second delay before the door starts to close after the smoke detector is actuated:

1. Doors installed across a corridor.

2. Doors that protect openings in exits or corridors required to be of fire-resistance-rated construction.

3. Doors that protect openings in walls that are capable of resisting the passage of smoke in accordance with Section 508.2.5.2.

4. Doors installed in smoke barriers in accordance with Section 710.5.

5. Doors installed in fire partitions in accordance with Section 709.6.

6. Doors installed in a fire wall in accordance with Section 706.8.

7. Doors installed in shaft enclosures in accordance with Section 708.7.

8. Doors installed in refuse and laundry chutes and access and termination rooms in accordance with Section 708.13.

9. Doors installed in the walls for compartmentation of underground buildings in accordance with Section 405.4.2.

10. Doors installed in the elevator lobby walls of underground buildings in accordance with Section 405.4.3.

11. Doors installed in smoke partitions in accordance with Section 711.5.3.
 
If a fire alarm is installed in the building, the mag lock system is the way to go. Relying on mechanical devices means relying on someone to close the door. If there is no fire alarm, the doors really need to stay closed... IMHO
 
peach said:
If a fire alarm is installed in the building, the mag lock system is the way to go. Relying on mechanical devices means relying on someone to close the door. If there is no fire alarm, the doors really need to stay closed... IMHO
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Hi Peach -

The delayed action closer does not require someone to close the door. When you push the door open to 90 degrees, it will stay there for aminute (some products might stay open for 2 minutes). Then the doors close on their own. There is no fire alarm interface, but what is the inherent risk of a door standing open for a minute, vs. school personnel using wedges to hold the doors open? Ideally, the doors would be held open with electronic devices actuated by the fire alarm, but I don’t see anything in the IBC or NFPA 101 that would prevent the use of a delayed action closer on a fire door. Do you?
 
cda said:
Found this from another site Does closing speed answer the question

http://idighardware.com/2012/05/decoded-opening-force-and-closing-speed/
Click to expand...
Hi Charles -

I wrote that article. :)

It talks about the minimum closing speed required for doors on an accessible route - ie. the door can't slam closed per the accessibility standards. But I don't know of anything that says a fire door has to close within a certain amount of time. The code excerpt that you posted refers to automatic-closing doors (actuated by a smoke detector or the fire alarm), but the delayed action closers would not be considered automatic-closing doors. They are self-closing doors, and there is no stated time limit for those. You could actually adjust a standard door closer so that it take a very long time to close, by closing the adjustment valves for closing speed so that the door creeps closed very slowly.

So in the absence of code language that says fire doors have to close quickly, would you be opposed as an AHJ to a fire door that stays open for one minute, and then closes on its own with no human or electronic interaction? Note that the door only stays open when someone pushes it to the 90-degree point - not every time someone passes through the door (individually we don't typically push the door open far enough for the delayed action feature to engage).
 
So in the absence of code language that says fire doors have to close quickly, would you be opposed as an AHJ to a fire door that stays open for one minute, and then closes on its own with no human or electronic interaction? Note that the door only stays open when someone pushes it to the 90-degree point - not every time someone passes through the door (individually we don't typically push the door open far enough for the delayed action feature to engage).
Click to expand...
No not at all

Old days it was a fusible link that held a door open until the fire got to the door. What you describe is fine. Yes in an evacuation it would allow more smoke to roll through a door.

How many actually push the door open to the full 90 degree position when exiting through a door?
 
mtlogcabin said:
How many actually push the door open to the full 90 degree position when exiting through a door?
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Exactly, the only time the delayed action feature is typically engaged is when someone purposely pushes the door into that position. Once the teachers figure out that they can do that and have the rest of the class follow through the open door, I think they will really like it and it will save wear and tear on the door as well as helping people resist the urge to prop the doors open. If there was a fire and the doors were closed, I think the staff and students would use a different evacuation route, rather than opening the doors containing the smoke. Worst case scenario there is an extra 1-minute worth of smoke that passes through the doors before they close. Compare that to the current state of the school my kids go to, where the smoke would go throughout most of the school unchecked, because the doors are too heavy for little kids to open and nobody has found the money to make them automatic-closing on fire alarm.
 
Interesting again, cannot see anything in NFPA 80 about closing, closing speed

Seems like there should be something somewhere, but as someone brought up fusible links on rated assemblies????

Oh well
 
Just seems strange there is no criteria

A door could stay open for a long time as long as at some point it closes and latches

I wonder if UL the answer?
 
"... shall not have more than a 10-second delay before the door starts to close..." (emphasis added)

cda - The code is still silent on the time it takes for the door to finish closing.

Interesting topic though...
 
JBI said:
"... shall not have more than a 10-second delay before the door starts to close..." (emphasis added) cda - The code is still silent on the time it takes for the door to finish closing.

Interesting topic though...
Click to expand...
This section of the code applies to automatic-closing doors - the type which are held open (usually held open all the time) and are released by a smoke detector or a signal from the fire alarm system. This code requirement technically wouldn't apply to the type of door closers I'm asking about, which are completely mechanical with just a 1-minute delay in closing (no signal from the fire alarm system).

Does anyone think that the 10-second limit for automatic-closing doors to begin closing could be seen as the intent of the code and apply it to delayed action mechanical closers? Essentially, this would mean that the solution I'm proposing (hold open for 1 minute) could not be used. I know the section doesn't apply officially...I'm just wondering how likely it is that an AHJ will try to use this to establish the intent of the code.
 
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