Dinking Fountain vs Water Cooler

[brudgers]

Mule,If you find a way to permit a single water cooler to substitute the high / low water fountain, I'd be interested. I have a building with a design occupant load of about 150 people, but an actual occupant load of only 5 (five) people and I am required to have the high / low water fountains. Seems a little ridiculous to me.

Semantics time:

Does the IBC or the IPC define drinking fountains or water coolers? I don't remember them doing so. Wikipedia lists water coolers as being both the traditional drinking fountain (bottle-less water cooler) and the 5 gallon bottled water dispensers (bottle water cooler). Elkay's site indicates to me that a water cooler is a drinking fountain with a refrigeration unit attached.

Anything from the code commentary?

Good luck with the Wikipedia defense.

ADAAG (and A117.1) have diagrams of drinking fountains.

So "drinking fountain" is not only defined in the building code, but in Civil Right law as well.

 

[Mech]

Brudgers: I was trying to point out that "water cooler" did not seem to have a definitive description.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Good luck with enforcement. If they are really that thirsty; they can get a drink from the lavatory/urinal, in the bathroom.

Uncle Bob

 

[Plans Approver]

The DOJ does not approve any products as "ADA Approved".

"The Department of Justice does not certify or endorse any individual or organization as ADA consultants, and does not approve or endorse any products or designs as being in compliance with the ADA. Any individual or business claiming to have such a certification or endorsement may be violating various state and federal laws prohibiting fraud and misrepresentation."

Read the whole letter here. http://www.justice.gov/crt/foia/tal397.txt

Has there been an update? I don't know of one.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Mt state ammendment drinking fountains are NOT required in B, M, Nightclubs, Restaurants, Assited Living, Hotels, Motels and Lodges.

footnote r On an individual case by case basis the BO may approve an alternative source of potable drinking water, such as, a bottled water cooler, in lieu of a drinking fountain.

If they choose to put one in it is high/lo style. There is no reason in this jurisdiction to subsitute a bottled water cooler in lieu of a drinking fountain. There are facilities around this state that are open to the public and do not have potable water piped into the buildings. Restrooms are supplied by untreated springs , creeks or cisterns and this is a UPC state so hot water is not required for hand washing as was brought up in another post

Sometimes my job is easiers than others :wink:

 

[Yikes]

1. There's are diagrams in ADAAG (as well as text) showing the requirements for drinking fountains. That's the best DOJ approval one can have.

Awesome, I agree that's the way to go when you are required or choose to provide a drinking fountain. Let me know where ADAAG describes the minimum number of drinking fountains for a given use or occupancy, without such qualifiers as "when provided" or "where provided" that send me back to my locally adopted codes.

2. Do you also apply the "if it's not required by code then it doesn't need to be accessible" logic elsewhere?

No, I don't apply that statement anywhere. What I do apply is restated from above: If the applicable codes do not actually require a particular facility to exist, then no facilitation for anybody is a form of equal facilitation for everybody. If it's not required, and I choose not to provide, then there's nothing to be out of compliance.

BTW, I've never seen a code mandated second story.

My point exactly! If I designed an accessible one-story building, no one could criticize me for omitting an elevator to provide accessibilty to the (non-existent) second story, even though ADAAG thoroughly defines and covers the requirements for an elevator, and requirements for accessibility to an upper floor... if such a floor ever existed.

At my office we do not have an ATM machine - - our HR department is the "money station", handing out paychecks every couple of weeks at their desk. If we decided to replace HR with an onsite ATM, well-then I suppose our new ATM would have to meet ADAAG requirements, wouldn't it? OR if ADAAG mandated that all companies have at least one onsite ATM, then I'd have to comply... but they don't... and I won't be losing any sleep over it.

 

[brudgers]

Unless you're in use group R, you're required to have a drinking fountain by most "locally adopted codes."

(and sometimes even then)

Install a water cooler in lieu of it, and you're not meet ADAAG.

(not meeting the code either)

 

[Yikes]

Unless you're in use group R, you're required to have a drinking fountain by most "locally adopted codes."

See my original response in post #5 which addresses the issue of locally adopted code.

 

[brudgers]

See my original response in post #5 which addresses the issue of locally adopted code.

That's the one with the mythical "water station."

I don't buy it any more as a substitution for a drinking fountain, today, than I did then.

 

[Yikes]

That's the one with the mythical "water station."I don't buy it any more as a substitution for a drinking fountain, today, than I did then.

Hey, no problem; that's why I practice architecture in California, using California codes.

"When in Rome..."

Peace out.

 

[brudgers]

and ADAAG?

 

[Yikes]

and ADAAG?

Repeating from post #30: "Let me know where ADAAG describes the minimum number of drinking fountains for a given use or occupancy, without such qualifiers as "when provided" or "where provided" that send me back to my locally adopted codes."

My state's code has provisions that in certain circumstances allow 100% water stations, 0% drinking fountains.

We're now talking in circles, so I have nothing further to add.

 

[88twin]

im cornfused, if one is required and i substitute one for one aren't I substituting 100% not 50%

 

[brudgers]

Repeating from post #30: "Let me know where ADAAG describes the minimum number of drinking fountains for a given use or occupancy, without such qualifiers as "when provided" or "where provided" that send me back to my locally adopted codes." My state's code has provisions that in certain circumstances allow 100% water stations, 0% drinking fountains.

We're now talking in circles, so I have nothing further to add.

California's accessibility code is not DOJ certified.

 

[Yikes]

Here's the response from the ADA technical assistance center regarding my inquiry as to water stations:

*

Thank you for contacting the Pacific ADA Center. The Pacific ADA Center provides technical assistance, training, education and written materials regarding the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).

The ADA is a civil rights law that ensures that individuals with disabilities get afforded the same rights as everyone else in the areas of employment, state and local government facilities and programs, public accommodations and telecommunications.

The list of questions and answers listed below are in response to your questions regarding a water station and the ADAAG.

Q-1. If a local code allows a facility to provide water stations in lieu drinking fountains, does ADAAG still require drinking fountains in addition to said water stations?

A-1. ADAAG does not require a drinking fountain to be installed, only that it meet the accessible guidelines if one is installed.

Q-2. Does ADAAG address the definition of "water station"?

A-2. ADAAG makes no reference to the definition of "water station."

Q-3. a. What features would a "water station" require in order to be considered compliant with ADAAG?

b. Would it simply be the same features as for an accessible sink or lavatory?

c. What about a traditional "water cooler" - does this qualify as an ADAAG-compliant water station?

A-3. a., b. ADAAG does not provide any guidelines in reference to a water station other than following the guidelines for dispensing devices under section 4.2 as stated under Special Occupancies (In general it should be accessible to and useable by persons with disabilities.) RESTAURANTS AND CAFETERIAS, 5.6 Tableware and Condiment Areas.

Self-service shelves and dispensing devices for tableware, dishware, condiments, food and beverages shall be installed to comply with 4.2.

(4.2 Space Allowance and Reach Ranges, 4.27 Controls and Operating

Mechanisms)

And following guidelines for Drinking Fountains and Water Coolers, see link below.

c. Water coolers must comply with Section 4.15 Drinking Fountains and Water Coolers. See link:

http://www.adata.org/adaportal/Facility_Access/ADAAG/Tech_Rqmts/ADAAG_4-

15.html

Q-4. At a water station, are cups required to be provided by the facility? If so, do the cups need and special design features? ...and does the act of holding the cup constitute a "grasp" problem?

A-4. The ADAAG makes no reference to a water station or the requirements of cups.

Q-5. What is the ADAAG definition of "grasp"?

A-5. The ADAAG refers to accessing controls and operations mechanisms

as: 4.27.4 Operation. Controls and operating mechanisms shall be operable with one hand and shall not require tight grasping, pinching, or twisting of the wrist. The force required to activate controls shall be no greater than 5 lbf (22.2 N).

Please call a Technical Assistance Specialist at 1-800-949-4232 between the hours of 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM, Pacific Time for ADA and accessible IT assistance and technical information, or if you would like to order any written materials. You can also visit our web site at www.adapacific.org

The information presented in this email is intended solely as informal guidance, and is neither a determination of legal rights or responsibilities under the ADA, nor is it binding on any agency with enforcement responsibilities under the ADA.

Robert Farr, ADA Specialist

DBTAC: Pacific ADA Center

1-800-949-4232 Toll Free (V/TTY)

1-510- 285-5600 (V/TTY)

email: adatech@adapacific.org

www.adapacific.org