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Disability Activists vs. Bicycle Activists vs. Other Train Riders

conarb

conarb

REGISTERED
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
3,505
Location
California East Bay Area
Probably the two most obnoxious activist groups are the Disability Activists and the Bicycle Activists, supposedly the bicycle activists drove the cost of the new Bay Bridge up a billion dollars so they could ride half way across the Bay.

Contra Costa Times said:
BART proposed the freestanding metal poles to prevent slips and falls by standing passengers as train cars accelerate or slow down. Many riders with mobility or balance problems told BART in a survey they favor the grip poles.But several blind people and people in wheelchairs told the board Thursday that the poles deny their equal rights to public transit by making it difficult for them to get on or off crowded trains.

"We cannot support a pole that limits people's right to equal access on a crowded train," said Ted Jackson, statewide organizer for the California Foundation for Independent Living Centers. "We urge you to delay your decision and come up with something for everyone."

Jackson said he wants the train system to dump the plan for the freestanding poles.

"We have narrowed our many decisions on the design down to two issues -- the poles and the bike racks," Keller said. "The compromise gives us time to get real-life experience with the options and get feedback from our riders."

Jessie Lorenz, executive director of the Independent Living Resource Center in San Francisco, said she was heartened that the board agreed to take a step back. "I'm pleased they agreed to look at alternatives," she said. Lorenz, who is legally blind, said it's hard for the blind or people in wheelchairs to maneuver around the poles as they try to enter or exit crowded trains.

In response to the concern, BART managers said they will shift the pole location 6 inches to provide a wider path for disabled riders.

BART Director John McPartland, a retired firefighter and safety expert, said "handholds" are important to protect standing riders from falls or collisions.

BART plans to order some $2.5 billion worth of new train cars to replace its aging fleet.¹
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They had pictures of a new prototype train car in the picture, there are few seats left making space for wheelchairs and bicycles, so normal people have to stand, I can tell you from personal experience having been in these trains a few unfortunate times that it is hard to stay upright as the train lurches along.

This is a construction issue since under the United Nations agenda "One Bay Area" we are building huge mixed-use apartment blocks at train stations to get people out of cars and private homes and into mixed use projects that include "affordable housing" where they commute by train. The whole concept here is to move the poor and minorities into the wealthier communities to create the utopian multicultural "diversity" the socialists so desire.

¹ http://www.contracostatimes.com/News/ci_25951878/BART-delays-final-decision-on-new
 
It's just more of the tail wagging the dog. 1.5% of the population dictates to the other 98.5%. 1.5% of everything should be accessible.

The fact that the disability activists would deny the able bodied an important safety feature is all the evidence we need to shut them down. They want more of us to be like them.

And now comes bicycle activists? What's next, a frisbee federation? Bicycle activists should be ignored just for the stupidity of getting on the road with cars. And then they bitch about getting run over.

Mark will be along shortly with a link to a Frisbee Federation.
 
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ICE said:
The fact that the disability activists would deny the able bodied an important safety feature is all the evidence we need to shut them down. They want more of us to be like them.
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Keeping vertical is a problem, I can't stand in them lurching along without grabbing on to something. There was a question and answer to this problem today that had nothing to do with disability or bicycle activists:

Contra Costa Times said:
Q My wife and I took BART into San Francisco from Livermore because it allowed us to avoid the morning commute. On the return trip through the Transbay Tube, the car would repeatedly jerk to one side, then to the other, completing each jerk cycle in less than a second.The jerking made it hard for me to read my book and her the newspaper. But we were lucky in that we had seats. Many riders had to stand and brace themselves to these motions.¹
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BART's answer, as usual for a public agency is give us more money:

Contra Costa Times said:
The trains are more than 30 years old on average, the oldest in the nation, and shock absorption systems don't work nearly as well anymore. New cars should be in use by 2018 to provide a smoother, quieter ride.The other problem is the vibration on the tracks. There's more friction because of small pits in the wheels and/or tracks, leading to more vibration, especially at higher speeds. Crews grind the rails nightly but newer equipment is needed¹
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This is pure bull**** to get more money, and it's not confined to the trans-bay tube, I rode that system a couple of times when it was new and you lurched all over the place if you tried to stand during the entire trip, now they are taking what appears to be half the seats out to accommodate these obnoxious disability and bicycle activist groups, so far I haven't read how many seats they are losing to accommodate their incessant demands but if the public knew I'm sure there would be many more upset people.

Another thing that I find disconcerting about it is that I was always trained that it was a simple courtesy for a man to give up his seat and stand if a lady comes in and there is no other seating available, men don't do that on these trains, women stand while men bounce around in their seats with their faces buried in newspapers or books pretending that they don't see the ladies standing.

¹ http://www.contracostatimes.com/mr-roadshow/ci_25942241/roadshow-why-bart-ride-through-transbay-tube-is
 
"deny their equal rights to public transit by making it difficult for them"

There is the crux. What do we mean by "accessible"? ADA and accessibility propaganda guides the populace to think any amount of "difficulty" equates to some insurmountable barrier. More dangerously, it does a disservice to the handicapped in that is convinces them that unless a building or apparatus is constructed according to government regulations, it is inaccessible. Nothing could be further from the truth.

So the argument against the poles is that it makes it difficult for the very small percentage of the handicapped that utilize the system. So their rationale is to make it more difficult on the general populace, for the benefit of a very few, for the want of convenience.

And that is really what the Handicapper Mafia is after. Not accessibility, but convenience. And not on their dime, but from the wallet of others. It is inarguable. It has nothing to do with civil rights.

Brent.
 
MASSDRIVER said:
America. Freedom from oppression.

Brent.
Click to expand...
America. "Promote the general welfare"

Democracy

Overwhelming bipartisan support

House - 377-28

Senate - 91-6

Signed by George Bush

Don't like it? Want to change it? You have the right to start the movement that does. Start a petition.
 
conarb said:
Another thing that I find disconcerting about it is that I was always trained that it was a simple courtesy for a man to give up his seat and stand if a lady comes in and there is no other seating available, men don't do that on these trains, women stand while men bounce around in their seats with their faces buried in newspapers or books pretending that they don't see the ladies standing.
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It's San Francisco. They fly by different rules there.
 
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jar546 said:
America. "Promote the general welfare" Democracy

Overwhelming bipartisan support

House - 377-28

Senate - 91-6

Signed by George Bush

Don't like it? Want to change it? You have the right to start the movement that does. Start a petition.
Click to expand...
If the general population understood what the facts are and had an opportunity to vote on it; the ADA ISA would be a drawing of the Titanic.

468 congressmen/women plus one president thought that ADA was a good idea. I won't deny the merits of the concept. It's the execution that went awry.

Instead of adapting the built environment to the wheelchair, the wheelchair should have adapted to the built environment. It is asinine to build ramps at every entry, two of everything within reach and allowing crooked lawyers to rape the business community.

But then, as you pointed out, elected officials of a great democracy created this so it must be righteous. In your heart you know it is wrong....not the concept but Shirley, you know that the method is deplorable and right thinking people are woefully dismayed.
 
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"If the general population understood what the facts are and had an opportunity to vote on it; the ADA ISA would be a drawing of the Titanic."

The general population if they could, would abolish the building code, almost all licensing laws. just what we need ...to intrusive. Why are you an inspector telling me how to build my house? Tyranny

Why cant i kill, dress and render my livestock in the City....?

What give you the right to require smoke detectors....?
 
jar546 said:
America. "Promote the general welfare" Democracy

Overwhelming bipartisan support

House - 377-28

Senate - 91-6

Signed by George Bush

Don't like it? Want to change it? You have the right to start the movement that does. Start a petition.
Click to expand...
So I'm to understand that if congress enacts it, it is considered good, righteous, and beneficial?

Well, allow me to retort;

The Espionage Act of 1917 limited free speech.

Bipartisan Campaign Reform of 2002 limited free speech

National Defense Authorization act of 2011 allows detention od a citizen without due process

National firearms act of 1934 declaring firearms ownership a collective right, challenged by Heller

Public Law 503, internment of Japanese heritage American citizens

Fugitive slave act of 1850

Prohibition in 1919

Patriot act of 2001, which spurred the attack on privacy going on today

The Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798, attacks on free speech

The Indian Removal Act of 1850, promoting the General Welfare of course

All of these were attacks on personal freedoms. Shall we go into laws that created economic chaos?

I'll just start with Obamacare and let your imagination run free from there.

I have sent several letters to my wonderful representatives to state my position on the matter, but I am no activist. I simply say my opinion on the matter. What's wrong with that?

Also, just because a Bush signed something into law does not make it right.

Brent
 
Behind the ADA The Congress Intented to provide a comprehensive solution to discrimination against the disabled, including employment, access to governmental services, and access to private services and premises.

The ADA does not require unduly burdensome accommodations, refer to. 42 USC 12182(b)(2)(A)(iv), (v) & 42 USC 12183. and proactive compliance with the ADA can prevent financial hardship. When a business owner who is building a new building or renovating an older building complies with the accessibility requirements of the ADA at the time of construction, there is a proportionate cost attached to incorporating the accessible features into the project.

A business owner does faces risks if they construct or renovate a building that does not comply with ADA accessibility requirements, the cost of retrofitting a building to become accessible more than triples. Business owners can achieve proactive compliance by taking advantage of the unprecedential technical assistance programs available to educate them on the accessibility requirements. They can also hold the architects designing their buildings accountable for complying with the accessibility requirements.

In few instances, business owners may not be aware that their building does not meet accessibility requirements because local building inspectors do not have the authority or knowlede to review a building and certify that it complies with the ADA. In this case, state or local officials should play a role in ensuring proactive compliance by requesting the Department of Justice to certify that the state or local accessibility laws meet or exceed the requirements of the ADA.

Most accessibility lawsuits in California are due to noncompliance with state laws and codes, NOT the ADA.. Any building built or modified in the last twnty five years, in CA should be accessible, It is the building designers, inspectors and building Official that are at fault.
 
Is is easy to blame ADA regulations/ lawsuts for Business Failurs

BUT

Top 10 Reasons Small Businesses Fail

http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/05/top-10-reasons-small-businesses-fail/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

1. The math just doesn’t work. There is not enough demand for the product or service at a price that will produce a profit for the company.

2. Owners who cannot get out of their own way. They may be stubborn, risk averse, conflict averse — meaning they need to be liked by everyone

3. Out-of-control growth. This one might be the saddest of all reasons for failure — a successful business that is ruined by over-expansion.

4. Poor accounting. You cannot be in control of a business if you don’t know what is going on.

5. Lack of a cash cushion.

6. Operational mediocrity.

7. Operational inefficiencies.

8. Dysfunctional management.

9. The lack of a succession plan.

10. A declining market.

Marginal businesses always claim that other reasons, other people, caused the failure/bankruptcy they need to look at the ten items above
 
A business going under because of ADA is rare....well I suppose it's rare but the truth is not accessible. Specious lawsuits are common....that truth is out there for all to see. Nobody, and that includes several judges, thinks that the lawsuits are anything other than legalized extortion. Yet nothing is done to stop it. That, in and of itself, is reason enough to toss out all of the ADA laws and start over.

Mark is quick to point out that the ADA laws are federal and it is state law that allows the suits to bring the suits. Okay then, start with California. Get rid of everything and start building wheelchairs that make the whole world accessible...not just McDonalds.
 
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mark handler said:
"If the general population understood what the facts are and had an opportunity to vote on it; the ADA ISA would be a drawing of the Titanic."The general population if they could, would abolish the building code, almost all licensing laws. just what we need ...to intrusive. Why are you an inspector telling me how to build my house? Tyranny

Why cant i kill, dress and render my livestock in the City....?

What give you the right to require smoke detectors....?
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I don't agree. Most folks understand the need for building codes and appreciate that we do not live like a third world country. They want their manicurist and Realtor to be licensed. When it comes to ADA almost everybody would cringe if they knew the facts. Not because they are against any regulation of any sort but because ADA is so poorly done and the result is laughable. A large number of government officials and employees agree.

It helps to remember that we are talking about 1.5% of the population. There's more people with red hair that there are in wheelchairs. The Sun is tough on people with red hair. Shouldn't there be measures taken to prevent the Sun from harshing their gig? So that sounds ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as ramping the world for 1.5% of the population.
 
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jar546 said:
You are missing the point Brent. You have the right to attempt to change it. Start a movement.Besides, it's fun. You can have a reason to buy a megaphone.
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Oh, I get the point.

I am to accept the common thought and apply no intellectual counterpoint. The law is written and done, and shall not be questioned by the plebes, amen. And I don't need a megaphone, I have this computer. :)

Brent.
 
MASSDRIVER said:
Oh, I get the point.I am to accept the common thought and apply no intellectual counterpoint. The law is written and done, and shall not be questioned by the plebes, amen. And I don't need a megaphone, I have this computer. :)

Brent.
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There, I fixed it for you.

And yes Brent, that's exactly their philosophy.
 
mark handler said:
Not true... Disfunction in congress stoped reformhttp://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/accessibility/14697-ada-lawsuit-relief-hold-congress.html

Throw out all the codes because I dont want to put in a smoke detector

I don't want a black family moving in next door so let's reinstate slavery...
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Come on Mark. You haven't made any good argument and you haven't got one. Comparison to smoke detectors and slavery is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU9F0COGm5Q
 
And your point is?

Access equals Buisness failure??

Come on

Any Building, in CA, built since 1980, should meet the CA accessibility Code.
 
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