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Do in-swinging toilet partition doors need 12" push clearance?

Y

Yikes

SAWHORSE
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
3,965
Location
Southern California
Situation:
Multi-user toilet facility
A long row of toilets with stalls about 4'-9" long. Typical floor mounted 1" think partitions and doors.
At the end of the row is the 8'-3" long accessible stall. Its stall door swings inward towards the toilet.
This door has gravity hinges which swing the door closed, and it has a slide latch for privacy.
So, as seen from outside the accessible stall, the stall door closes, latches, but does nto have 12" strike side clearance due to the adjacent (4'-9" long non-accessible stall) partition.

CBC/ADA would normally require 12" strike side clearance on the push side of a door that is equipped with both a "latch" and a "closer" (the gravity hinges).
However, I contend this doesn't apply to the situation described above, because the latch is only accessed and functional from the inside of the stall, which is the pull side. the outside/push side has no latch. There will never be a situation where a person on the outside will have to actuate a latch in order to open the (self-closing) door to an unoccupied accessible stall. Therefore, as seen form the push side this is functionally equivalent to the door having no latch, and therefore no 12" strike side clearance is required on the push side.

Do you agree?
 
Came across this yesterday on barrier removal review.
1. Is door located end of stall or on side of stall?
2. Interior stall clear floor space large enough for door to swing in?

Panel thickness is typically less than 24" so given no closer and latch it does not require the 12" as opening width > 32" would be clear.
 
I believe the intent is "self latching" doors. If it doesn't automatically latch, if can just be plowed by the chair or person w/o having to negotiate the latch..
 
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Like this (sketch done on top of CBC/ADA compliant toilet detail):
000000011.jpg
 
Yikes, I would agree with you, but it is a bit of an argument that the latch is not a latch from the push side.
 
I'm confused. ADASAD 604.8.1.2 & 604.8.2.2 say that accessible & ambulatory stall doors shall be self-closing. I always thought toilet stall doors were supposed to remain ajar a few inches so somebody could tell whether a stall was occupied.


 
Paul Sweet said:
I'm confused. ADASAD 604.8.1.2 & 604.8.2.2 say that accessible & ambulatory stall doors shall be self-closing. I always thought toilet stall doors were supposed to remain ajar a few inches so somebody could tell whether a stall was occupied.
Click to expand...
Nothing in Code or Standards about remaining ajar, but doors that "auto" latch, must have clearances.
 
OK, it sounds like we are all in agreement on the main issue. The toilet partition is definitely NOT auto latching.
And Paul, I think you are right that most manufacturers make the gravity hinge so that it doesn't close tightly. In fact, if that's the case, then my original question was invalid: the partition doors are not "self-closing", they are merely "self-ajar-ing".
 
This issue came up again yesterday on another project, this time with an outswinging toilet partition, and people were asking me where the concept of "auto-latching" is mentioned in the code. I constructed my response this way:

  • Accessibility code requires 12” push-side strike clearance when a door is equipped with both a latch and a closer. The intent is that operation both at the same time quires extra energy and dexterity, so the push side clearance provides additional maneuvering space to do this.
  • The question is, does this apply to typical toilet partitions?
  • A typical toilet partition does have gravity-powered door hinges that close the door. But it does not have a “latch”; it has a “lock”. The reminder of the analysis below is to distinguish the difference between a "latch" and a "lock".
  • The purposes of a “latch” is to automatically secure the door once is reaches a closed position. When that occurs, it takes two simultaneous actions (working the latch, and pushing the door) to get the door to open.
  • In contrast, the typical toilet partition hardware does not automatically secure the door when it closes. The door can be immediately pushed back open without touching the hardware. In order to secure the door, it takes a second, separate, additional step of sliding a bolt or bar into/onto the strike jamb. This is not an automatic latching effect, it is a manual locking effect.
  • The toilet stall user has the option to use the lock, or not use the lock. If the user chooses to not use the lock, the door can be pushed open without requiring any manipulation of hardware.
  • If the user chooses to use the lock, when they want to exit the stall, they slide lock back to the unlocked position. Now the door can resume its normal operation, and it can be pushed open (against the force of the closer) without any simultaneous manipulation of the hardware.
  • Having demonstrated that this is a lock - and not a latch – the 12” push side clearance does not apply.
 
O'weeee, One element to this equation is the width of the aisle approaching the door, that being a minimum of 44".
That being the case, 44" (-) 32" = 12" "ouch", no?
 
ADAguy: No, this is circulation to and from an individual toilet stall in a multi-user restroom.
It is not a "corridor", and it serves way less than 50 people, so per ADA and CBC 11B-403.5.1 it only needs to be 36" wide, and even then it can narrow down to 32" wide for a distance of 24" length.
 
Builder Bob, my point is: if a toilet partition door (or any other door) has a "latch" that is completely manual, I am now calling it a "lock" instead of calling it a "latch", just to make sure everyone know that push-side strike clearances will not be required.
 
I found yet one more interesting comment from the U.S. Access Board relative to self closing hinges (such as on toilet partition doors) - - they are not considered a "closer":
[Q] Are spring hinges and gravity hinges considered “closers” in determining the size of maneuvering clearances?

[A] No. Some approaches require additional maneuvering clearances when a door or gate is equipped with a closer because of the additional force that must be counteracted in proceeding through doors. Since spring and gravity hinges do not significantly impact the opening force of doors, they are not considered “closers” for purposes of specifying door maneuvering clearance.

https://www.access-board.gov/guidelines-and-standards/buildings-and-sites/about-the-ada-standards/guide-to-the-ada-standards/chapter-4-entrances,-doors,-and-gates
 
So you are saying that since the U. S Access Board does not consider these closers we do not need to comply with:

ICC/ANSI A117.1 404.2.7.2 Spring Hinges Door Spring hinges shall be adjusted so that from the open position of 70 degress, the door shall move to the closed position in 1.5 seconds..

But I don't inspect to the ADA but only the I codes and I don't think I can go by what the U. S. Access Board says. I need to go by the state accessibility board says.

So should I time stall door closing time?
 
The access board says: "Since spring and gravity hinges do not significantly impact the opening force of doors, they are not considered “closers” for purposes of specifying door maneuvering clearance."
They are not addressing closing time, they are only addressing whether spring hinges trigger the 12" push side maneuvering clearance requirement.

Also, in this particular instance of a toilet partition door, the mechanism that most manufacturers provide is typically a gravity hinge, not a spring hinge.
 
Rick18071 said:
So you are saying that since the U. S Access Board does not consider these closers we do not need to comply with:

ICC/ANSI A117.1 404.2.7.2 Spring Hinges Door Spring hinges shall be adjusted so that from the open position of 70 degress, the door shall move to the closed position in 1.5 seconds..

But I don't inspect to the ADA but only the I codes and I don't think I can go by what the U. S. Access Board says. I need to go by the state accessibility board says.

So should I time stall door closing time?
Click to expand...
How old is this RR that it still uses spring hinges?
You believe that PA code is more stringent then ADA minimums? (Hmm?)
 
Yikes said:
The access board says: "Since spring and gravity hinges do not significantly impact the opening force of doors, they are not considered “closers” for purposes of specifying door maneuvering clearance."
They are not addressing closing time, they are only addressing whether spring hinges trigger the 12" push side maneuvering clearance requirement.

Also, in this particular instance of a toilet partition door, the mechanism that most manufacturers provide is typically a gravity hinge, not a spring hinge.
Click to expand...

How would you propose adjustment of either of these hinge types? The timing issue is to allow enough maneuvering time so you do not have to fight against the door closer force. These hinges do not provide the type of force that is difficult to overcome
 
I do not believe you need to be concerned with closer speed on a toilet partition door.
I am also not aware of any toilet partition manufacturers that use anything other than gravity hinges.
 
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