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Doctors office & ada
- Thread starter RJJ
- Start date
mark handler
SAWHORSE
I guess we go to different doctorsJPohling said:
globe trekker
Registered User
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,739
Aaaaaawwwll-righty then!
In "cracking my books", ..I am desiring to obtain some guidance and clarity.
QUESTION # 1: If the DOJ / Federal ADA Standards apply regardless of
the state, ..jurisidiction, ..or who's in office, ..or who someone knows, ..or
who someone can pay off, etc., and a jurisdiction adopts the ICC codes
and by reference, ..the ICC A117.1, can 3 sets of standards be legally
enforced, ..is there legal precedence to apply 3 sets of standards? NOTE:
There is at least one standard (maybe more) in the A117.1 that is not in
the 2010 ADA SAD, .."vertical grab bars". See Section 604.5.1, 2003
Edition of the A117.1.
QUESTION # 2: If the Federal standards will apply regardless, then
should / will the A117.1 or IBC standards apply at all? Here, trying to
apply all 3 standards ain't going well!
My commentary:
I am researching thru 3 sets of Accessible standards and
trying to successfully navigate / interpret / administer all
3 sets in to some type of coherent, understandable, politically
acceptable, contractor & developer friendly compilation on
all projects. I find it to be challenging and exciting, but also
frustrating at times. I regularly get the "deer in the headlights"
looks from RDP's, contractors, developers, colleagues,
political decision makers and others. In reading the
discussions on this forum, it seems apparent that a lot of
you get "the looks" too!
If I seem to be overly redundant, incoherent, obtuse, or
just "out in out" stupid, I'll just go ahead now ask for your
indulgence and patience. I DO have lot's of questions,
which is why I enjoy coming to this Forum to learn, ask
questions; even stupid, redundant ones, and to have
discussions. I am sure that all of us will never agree
completely on anything, but let us at the very least, be
civil and courteous to one another. This Forum far
surpasses any other Forum on the internet, bar none!
Let's try to improve on this GREAT resource, what do
you say?
In "cracking my books", ..I am desiring to obtain some guidance and clarity.
QUESTION # 1: If the DOJ / Federal ADA Standards apply regardless of
the state, ..jurisidiction, ..or who's in office, ..or who someone knows, ..or
who someone can pay off, etc., and a jurisdiction adopts the ICC codes
and by reference, ..the ICC A117.1, can 3 sets of standards be legally
enforced, ..is there legal precedence to apply 3 sets of standards? NOTE:
There is at least one standard (maybe more) in the A117.1 that is not in
the 2010 ADA SAD, .."vertical grab bars". See Section 604.5.1, 2003
Edition of the A117.1.
QUESTION # 2: If the Federal standards will apply regardless, then
should / will the A117.1 or IBC standards apply at all? Here, trying to
apply all 3 standards ain't going well!
My commentary:
I am researching thru 3 sets of Accessible standards and
trying to successfully navigate / interpret / administer all
3 sets in to some type of coherent, understandable, politically
acceptable, contractor & developer friendly compilation on
all projects. I find it to be challenging and exciting, but also
frustrating at times. I regularly get the "deer in the headlights"
looks from RDP's, contractors, developers, colleagues,
political decision makers and others. In reading the
discussions on this forum, it seems apparent that a lot of
you get "the looks" too!
If I seem to be overly redundant, incoherent, obtuse, or
just "out in out" stupid, I'll just go ahead now ask for your
indulgence and patience. I DO have lot's of questions,
which is why I enjoy coming to this Forum to learn, ask
questions; even stupid, redundant ones, and to have
discussions. I am sure that all of us will never agree
completely on anything, but let us at the very least, be
civil and courteous to one another. This Forum far
surpasses any other Forum on the internet, bar none!
Let's try to improve on this GREAT resource, what do
you say?
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Always the most restrictive for the designer
Always the codes the AHJ/inspectors are authorized/empowered to enforce and not judgment calls
Always the codes the AHJ/inspectors are authorized/empowered to enforce and not judgment calls
Alias
Registered User
Where I was previously employed, no exam room sinks were accessible in any of the four local clinics.JPohling said:
One clinic had a Doctor who used crutches due to polio, she was a good doc. Bathrooms, doors, parking, etc. were all CA ADA compliant at the clinic. Why not exam room sinks, who knows?
Sue
RJJ
Co-Founder
Globe: I can only agree with your statements above. I find myself at times struggling to find the correct answer and at times have to review various commentary or articles to find the right path. Thus my OP on sinks in exam rooms.
If we step back and not include new construction / a new building things become complicated. In a totally new setting everything must comply. However, the remaining parts on existing buildings start to be come complicated.
To me often the application of rules become a guessing game. The OP was a simple question from the applicant, but still a complicated question. Here goes my response. If six exam rooms are proposed and will have counters and sinks then all counters and sinks must comply. The sinks must have forward approach. That would include approach space not in conflict with exam tables, chairs etc found in the exam room. How many exam room comply now? They may have the sink and counter ok until they furnish the place.
If we step back and not include new construction / a new building things become complicated. In a totally new setting everything must comply. However, the remaining parts on existing buildings start to be come complicated.
To me often the application of rules become a guessing game. The OP was a simple question from the applicant, but still a complicated question. Here goes my response. If six exam rooms are proposed and will have counters and sinks then all counters and sinks must comply. The sinks must have forward approach. That would include approach space not in conflict with exam tables, chairs etc found in the exam room. How many exam room comply now? They may have the sink and counter ok until they furnish the place.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr. Inspector
SAWHORSE
All the doctors exam rooms I ever been in they don't want the patents touching anything on the counter. For employees only. An employee work area.
However if the patents are supposed to use it is required to be accessible. Same with the sink.
PA only adopted IBC & ANSI. So that's all we are required to inspect by.
However if the patents are supposed to use it is required to be accessible. Same with the sink.
PA only adopted IBC & ANSI. So that's all we are required to inspect by.
conarb
Registered User
JPohling, good question, but another question is whatever happened to our old friend RJJ?
north star
Sawhorse
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 4,596
@ ~ @ ~ @
JPohling,
I do not know of any "official" concensus, but Contractors
look for \ operate [ typically ] on the path of least resistance.
To me that would mean, to order all of the Exam Room
cabinetry to be at 34", and to not have some at 34" and some
at 36".......That way, all countertops would be compliant.
But what the heck do I know...
conarb,
The rumors & Speculation Grapevine has it that
**RJJ** no longer wanted to play in this sand-box,
with these sand-box rules.
I can neither confirm nor deny that rumor !.....This
is only my opinion !
@ ~ @ ~ @
JPohling,
I do not know of any "official" concensus, but Contractors
look for \ operate [ typically ] on the path of least resistance.
To me that would mean, to order all of the Exam Room
cabinetry to be at 34", and to not have some at 34" and some
at 36".......That way, all countertops would be compliant.
But what the heck do I know...
conarb,
The rumors & Speculation Grapevine has it that
**RJJ** no longer wanted to play in this sand-box,
with these sand-box rules.
I can neither confirm nor deny that rumor !.....This
is only my opinion !
@ ~ @ ~ @
steveray
SAWHORSE
IF it is an "employee work area" it is exempt....Does it make sense to get it "right" when it is in new construction? Yes....But if they don't want to they can just remodel or get sued later when there is a complaint...No way for me to force it.
conarb
Registered User
North Star said:
Thanks, he was a good ally in the fight against sprinklers, he provided real insight when he attended the Minneapolis hearings. Forums have tended towards echo chambers, many like-minded people have gravitated to Facebook that welcomes echo chambers.