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Does a permanent stage in an A occupancy make it A-1

B

bill1952

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Joined
Aug 12, 2021
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Location
Clayton NY
IBC states:
Group A-1.
Group A-1 occupancy includes assembly uses, usually with fixed seating, intended for the production and viewing of the performing arts or motion pictures, including but not limited to:
Motion picture theaters
Symphony and concert halls
Television and radio studios admitting an audience
Theaters

Does a cafeteria, restaurant, or nightclub become an A-1 if there is a permanent stage "intended for the production and viewing of the performing arts or motion pictures"

Does a normally A-3 or A-4 (gym with or without spectator seating) become an A-1 if it has a permanent stage and portable seating is planned?

And is normally A-5 stadium with a stage become A-1?

A-1 seems to be the most restrictive in terms of height, area, and construction types, so doesn't the presence of a permanent stage require they meet the requirements for A-1?

Like it took the codes to catch up to high rises, shopping malls, and similar, not sure it's caught up to how many buildings are designed for multiple uses. Maybe it's simpler than I thought and I'm just missing the code section that answers this or says pick most restrictive. Still feel there are a lot of cafeterias with stages built as A-2 and gyms with stages built as A-4.
 
Back in the "olden days" (referring to the UBC), Group A-1 was characterized as an assembly room with an occupant load of 1,000 or more plus a "legitimate stage." Group A-2 was the same, except that the occupant load was less than 1,000. Group A-2.1 was for assembly occupancies not classified as Group B or E with an occupant load of more than 300 and without a "legitimate stage."

A "legitimate stage" was defined pretty much as a "stage" is defined today, except it had a dimensional requirement: a stage height of 50 feet or more.

Based on the code history, I would say that a permanent accessory stage would not make the building a Group A-1 occupancy since theater and other performing arts are not its primary functions.

Edit: I added the paragraph below since I did not see @steveray's post before I posted my response.

With a stage, you still have to provide all the requirements required for a stage in Chapter 4, regardless of the occupancy classification. You also have to comply with the exiting and aisle requirements per Section 1030. In other words, the stage itself does not dictate the occupancy classification, but as @steveray states, you have to comply with all of the requirements for those times when a space is used differently from its primary function.
 
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TheCommish said:
Lacking a proscenium opening I wouldn't call it a stage I would call it a platform
Click to expand...
So if I remove the proscenium wall and everything else stays the same (and I have designed such and seen others) basically no protection? No vents and no fire resistant construction? A platform doesn't even require sprinklers, though the use group probably will.
 
bill1952 said:
So if I remove the proscenium wall and everything else stays the same (and I have designed such and seen others) basically no protection? No vents and no fire resistant construction? A platform doesn't even require sprinklers, though the use group probably will.
Click to expand...
on my school projects we keep our 'platforms' under 1000sf so we do not have to provide smoke control or a stand pipe.
 
bill1952 said:
So if I remove the proscenium wall and everything else stays the same (and I have designed such and seen others) basically no protection? No vents and no fire resistant construction? A platform doesn't even require sprinklers, though the use group probably will.
Click to expand...

Correct;

2021 IBC definitions:

[BG] PLATFORM. A raised area within a building used for
worship, the presentation of music, plays or other entertainment;
the head table for special guests; the raised area for
lecturers and speakers; boxing and wrestling rings; theater-inthe-
round stages; and similar purposes wherein, other than
horizontal sliding curtains, there are no overhead hanging
curtains, drops, scenery or stage effects other than lighting and
sound. A temporary platform is one installed for not more than
30 days.
Click to expand...

[BG] STAGE. A space within a building utilized for entertainment
or presentations, which includes overhead hanging
curtains, drops, scenery or stage effects other than lighting and
sound.
Click to expand...
 
2015 IBC refence
PLATFORM. A raised area within a building used for worship, the presentation of music, plays or other entertainment; the head table for special guests; the raised area for lecturers and speakers; boxing and wrestling rings; theater-in-theround stages; and similar purposes wherein, other than horizontal sliding curtains, there are no overhead hanging curtains, drops, scenery or stage effects other than lighting and sound. A temporary platform is one installed for not more than 30 days.

PROSCENIUM WALL. The wall that separates the stage from the auditorium or assembly seating area.

STAGE. A space within a building utilized for entertainment or presentations, which includes overhead hanging curtains, drops, scenery or stage effects other than lighting and sound.

Section 410 Stages, Platforms and Technical Production Areas

410.3.4 Proscenium Wall

Where the stage height is greater than 50 feet (15 240 mm), all portions of the stage shall be completely separated from the seating area by a proscenium wall with not less than a 2-hour fire-resistance rating extending continuously from the foundation to the roof.


410.4 Platform Construction
Permanent platforms shall be constructed of materials as required for the type of construction of the building in which the permanent platform is located. Permanent platforms are permitted to be constructed of fire-retardant-treated wood for Types I, II and IV construction where the platforms are not more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the main floor, and not more than one-third of the room floor area and not more than 3,000 square feet (279 m2) in area. Where the space beneath the permanent platform is used for storage or any purpose other than equipment, wiring or plumbing, the floor assembly shall be not less than 1-hour fire-resistance-rated construction. Where the space beneath the permanent platform is used only for equipment, wiring or plumbing, the underside of the permanent platform need not be protected.
 
Tim Mailloux said:
on my school projects we keep our 'platforms' under 1000sf so we do not have to provide smoke control or a stand pipe.
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Standpipe requirement on stages was removed several editions ago - both IBC and LSC.

Sure, 1000 SF is small. Most of the high school ones I work on are in 3000- 5000sf range.
 
A-1 is not necessarily based upon either a platform or stage. If you look at the description it notes fixed seating typically and generally speaking a more difficult egress as most 1's are dimly lit as well hence it's higher risk. Whatever you are designing it's "mostly resembles" occupancy is what you are looking for with the ability to egress it based on it's multi-use capability. Just don't confuse having a stage putting you into 1 "A" occ as if you did a bar w/stage it's still a 2 which is more restrictive without fixed seating and typically alcohol/standing room hazards. An "A" can be submitted for review and approval based upon it's normal use with a portion of the permit being issued reviewed under other "multi" uses covering movable seating and egress.
 
So a purpose built dinner theatre, fixed seating and stage: A-1 or A-2?

Same question: high school cafetorium?

it seems both occupancies include "assembly uses intended for the production and viewing of the performing arts". Isn't the cafetorium intended for the production and viewing of the performing arts? And it is also "intended for food and/or drink consumption", as is the dinner theatre.

I don't think "usually with fixed seating" is relevant nor is it good code writing. OK for code commentary. An in A-2, I've been chastised for code proposals with "and/or" by staff.

steveray seems to have this right by 302.1 "An area, room or space that is intended to be occupied at different times for different purposes shall comply with all applicable requirements associated with such potential multipurpose." which I think poorly says the most restrictive provisions of the all intended uses.
 
I've never seen a school "cafetorium" with a stage/platform that included any provision of overhead scenery flies -- which is one of the factors differentiating a stage from a platform. The only dinner theater I can remember in this state closed decades ago. I went there once, but that was 50 years ago. My fuzzy recollection is that it was a theater-in-the-round arrangement, so no fly gallery and no overhead scenery drops.
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
I've never seen a school "cafetorium" with a stage/platform that included any provision of overhead scenery flies -- which is one of the factors differentiating a stage from a platform. The only dinner theater I can remember in this state closed decades ago. I went there once, but that was 50 years ago. My fuzzy recollection is that it was a theater-in-the-round arrangement, so no fly gallery and no overhead scenery drops.
Click to expand...
I have seen quite a few and have worked on a lot of gymnstoriums. It is the Chicago Public School standard and think I worked on 14 or so, all designed to accomodate scenery. Certainly much more than the current platform definition envisions. A current project near St Louis is to replace their cafetorium with large stage and rigging with a whole new theatre. What I see and hear of are more multi purpose spaces being designed and built.
 
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