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Does accessible apartment bathroom require a turnaround?

Y

Yikes

SAWHORSE
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
4,104
Location
Southern California
California Building Code 1134A.4 has a subjective statement about apartment bathroom accessiblity. Assuming an adaptable bathroom inside an apartment has only one door, does this code necessarily imply a turnaround (5' diameter circle or T-turn)?

Or is it possible that a person in a wheelchair might back into a bathroom, pull the door closed (maybe a rope on the handle), use the fixtures and push the door open / exit without turning around?

"1134A.4 Sufficient maneuvering space. Bathing and toilet facilities required to be adaptable shall provide sufficient maneuvering space for a person using a wheelchair or other mobility aid to:

[1] enter and close the door,

[2] use the fixtures,

[3] reopen the door and

[4] exit."
 
I don't see where it outlaws handstands. So why not a rope? If they get trapped they can use it to climb out the window.
 
ICE said:
I don't see where it outlaws handstands. So why not a rope? If they get trapped they can use it to climb out the window.
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Very funny, ICE, but this was a real-world example. I have a friend in a wheelchair who lives in what code geeks like me would consider to be a non-accessible house. He closes his bathroom door with a rope.

Everywhere else in the code, when they want a turnaround, they ask for it. Why didn't they ask for it inside a private dwelling unit?
 
Yikes said:
California Building Code 1134A.4 has a subjective statement about apartment bathroom accessiblity. Assuming an adaptable bathroom inside an apartment has only one door, does this code necessarily imply a turnaround (5' diameter circle or T-turn)? Or is it possible that a person in a wheelchair might back into a bathroom, pull the door closed (maybe a rope on the handle), use the fixtures and push the door open / exit without turning around?

"1134A.4 Sufficient maneuvering space. Bathing and toilet facilities required to be adaptable shall provide sufficient maneuvering space for a person using a wheelchair or other mobility aid to:

[1] enter and close the door,

[2] use the fixtures,

[3] reopen the door and

[4] exit."
Click to expand...
You need to read on...Section 1134A.4 Sufficient Maneuvering Space continues...

"...Where the door swings into the bathroom or powder room, there shall be a clear maneuvering space outside the swing of the door of at least 30 inches by 48 inches (762 mm by 1219 mm) within the room. The clear maneuvering space shall allow the user to position a wheelchair or other mobility aid clear of the path of the door as it is closed and to permit use of fixtures.

Doors may swing into the required clear space at any fixture when a clear maneuvering space is provided outside the swing are of the door so it can be closed.

Maneuvering spaces may include any knee space or toe space available below bathroom fixtures."

OKAY, so we are getting more specific about the maneuvering space required.

It is not a 5' circle or T that is the measure of compliance. It is a set of rules using mostly 30"x48" rectangles.

BUT, don't forget...per 1134A.2, you have two options, both of which include requirement for

"A minimum 18-inch (457 mm) clear maneuvering space shall be provided on the swing side of the door at the strike edge of the door."

SO, if your door swings into the bathroom, don't forget the 18" strike clear.

AND, verify if any other codes or regulations are required. Is this federally funded? Does UFAS apply?

http://www.access-board.gov/ufas/ufas-html/ufas.htm
 
Or they could use the rope to hang me. I'm no ADA maven, Hell I don't even know what UFAS stands for but come on...a rope? There's a lawyer that gets talked about a lot that I'm sure would love to help. It sounds like this is a case that's actually worth $4000.
 
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Yikes said:
Very funny, ICE, but this was a real-world example. I have a friend in a wheelchair who lives in what code geeks like me would consider to be a non-accessible house. He closes his bathroom door with a rope. Everywhere else in the code, when they want a turnaround, they ask for it. Why didn't they ask for it inside a private dwelling unit?
Click to expand...
Because experience has shown that there are other practical solutions inside dwellings...such as rope.
 
1134A.4 Sufficient maneuvering space. Bathing and toilet facilities required to be adaptable shall provide sufficient maneuvering space for a person using a wheelchair or other mobility aid to enter and close the door, use the fixtures, reopen the door and exit. Where the door swings into the bathroom or powder room, there shall be a clear maneuvering space outside the swing of the door of at least 30 inches by 48 inches (762 mm by 1219 mm) within the room. The clear maneuvering space shall allow the user to position a wheelchair or other mobility aid clear of the path of the door as it is closed and to permit use of fixtures.

Doors may swing into the required clear space at any fixture when a clear maneuvering space is provided outside the swing arc of the door so it can be closed.

Maneuvering spaces may include any knee space or toe space available below bathroom fixtures.
Click to expand...
No you do not need the 5 foot radius

Not all Mobility aids help all disabled people, a rope would not be a Mobility aid for the person with little or no upper body strength
 
In the anecdote I mentioned above, the rope is inside the guy's own house, so there;s no one to sue but himself. He has no use of his legs, and his hands have that backward-bend claw shape. He told me when he uses his bathroom, he gets near the open door, which pulls the door closed.
 
Thanks Mark. I once had a D.A.D. plan checker in Los Angeles who said it was his department's policy to interpret "sufficient manuevering space" + "re-open the door" to imply that a turnaround needs to occur in the bathroom.
 
Yikes said:
In the anecdote I mentioned above, the rope is inside the guy's own house, so there;s no one to sue but himself. He has no use of his legs, and his hands have that backward-bend claw shape. He told me when he uses his bathroom, he gets near the open door, which pulls the door closed.
Click to expand...
The reason the requirements can be different inside a dwelling is because a disabled person can count on their being a rope attached to the door in their house. They are unlikely to find a rope attached to the door at the local burger stand.
 
Yikes said:
In the anecdote I mentioned above, the rope is inside the guy's own house, so there;s no one to sue but himself. He has no use of his legs, and his hands have that backward-bend claw shape. He told me when he uses his bathroom, he gets near the open door, which pulls the door closed.
Click to expand...
The title of the thread says apartment but it could be that dwellings of any type are immune to lawsuits. Either way my comment about the lawyer is insensitive if not stupid.

Ahh fatboy made me do it. Ahh that's the ticket, fatboy made me do it.
 
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mtlogcabin said:
Unsuitable for Army ServiceDon't feel bad most on here confuse it with something else. :D
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I'm not even gonna ask which chapter that's in.
 
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