Dogging holes

[msierra8209]

I was recently asked by a client to infill the dogging holes on some panic bars. When I called my supplier they told me it was against code to fill or cover those holes and if they wanted the holes to be inaccessible I should replace with security hardware like a 98-99 VD. I am not able to find any source where this is a code violation but I dont want to move forward until I have the correct info. Any help?

 

[LGreene]

I was recently asked by a client to infill the dogging holes on some panic bars. When I called my supplier they told me it was against code to fill or cover those holes and if they wanted the holes to be inaccessible I should replace with security hardware like a 98-99 VD. I am not able to find any source where this is a code violation but I dont want to move forward until I have the correct info. Any help?

Can you give me a little more info about what you want to do? Maybe the facility doesn't want anyone to have the ability to dog the panics? If that's the case, and these are not fire doors, you can usually either flip the cover plate so the hole is not aligned with the dogging mechanism, or you can remove the dogging mechanism, or you can order a new cover plate without a hole. I don't know what hardware is currently on the doors, but I work for Von Duprin and I checked with one of our compliance engineers just to be sure.

 

[msierra8209]

Can you give me a little more info about what you want to do? Maybe the facility doesn't want anyone to have the ability to dog the panics? If that's the case, and these are not fire doors, you can usually either flip the cover plate so the hole is not aligned with the dogging mechanism, or you can remove the dogging mechanism, or you can order a new cover plate without a hole. I don't know what hardware is currently on the doors, but I work for Von Duprin and I checked with one of our compliance engineers just to be sure.

Thanks for the quick reply!! Thats exactly right, they do not want to be able to dog the panics. So I called supplier to see if they made a plug or cover and as I explained this they told me I needed to change out the hardware to the model I previously mentioned. I’m going to look in to flipping the existing cover plate. If that works, it would be the easiest and cheapest solution.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I was recently asked by a client to infill the dogging holes on some panic bars. When I called my supplier they told me it was against code to fill or cover those holes and if they wanted the holes to be inaccessible I should replace with security hardware like a 98-99 VD. I am not able to find any source where this is a code violation but I dont want to move forward until I have the correct info. Any help?

You won't find that in a code. The building code requires, depending on the location, either "panic hardware" or "fire exit devices." The latter is used on the doors protecting rated fire barriers. Since the doors in fire barriers MUST latch securely (note: "latch," not "lock"), they car never be dogged open. So "fire exit devices" do not have provision to be dogged open.

I would check the U.L. listing (if any) for the existing hardware you have, and see if there is anything that prohibits disabling the dogging opening.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

You won't find that in a code. The building code requires, depending on the location, either "panic hardware" or "fire exit devices." The latter is used on the doors protecting rated fire barriers. Since the doors in fire barriers MUST latch securely (note: "latch," not "lock"), they car never be dogged open. So "fire exit devices" do not have provision to be dogged open.

I would check the U.L. listing (if any) for the existing hardware you have, and see if there is anything that prohibits disabling the dogging opening.

What if the doors are on an exterior wall not required to be protected with rated closures?

 

[TheCommish]

Any energy code issues? if the door were dogged could they allow excess cold air or leakage into the envelope?

 

[LGreene]

I don't know of any code requirement that would state that panic hardware must be able to be dogged. The only concern I can think of is the possibility of voiding the listing of the hardware by modifying it. For this reason, I wouldn't try to alter the hardware by filling the hole somehow...I would use one of the methods I recommended in my earlier response. And as I said, I confirmed this with one of our compliance engineers. I don't know specifically what hardware is installed currently, but I doubt that another manufacturer would have a problem with the suggested methods for removing the ability to dog the panic.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

What if the doors are on an exterior wall not required to be protected with rated closures?

Then they get panic hardware (dogging allowed), not "fire exit hardware."