Door atBottom of stairs

[korcraft]

Hello,

I want to put a door at the bottom of my basement stairs as I am turning the whole space into a bedroom (it isn't a large basement)

All I can find is information on. The size of the landing that is required.

I will not be adding a landing. I simply need to know what the minimum distance from the bottom step a door would need to be.

The door will open into the bedroom (away from the stairs) on the floor level.

I live in Ontario.

Thanks,
K

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Ontario, California, or Ontario, Canada?

If Canada, this should be posted under Canadian Building Codes.

 

[korcraft]

Ontario, Canada.

I'm sure the information is in the building code. But I was hoping to come by the information without needing to search through the whole code.

I have been searching and as I said...what ends up coming up is always about building a landing platform. I am trying to find out information about installing a door right at floor level.

 

[Joe.B]

The Canadian codes are different than the US codes, there are several Canuk's here, hopefully they will weigh in, but that's why @Yankee Chronicler suggested posting it in the Canadian section.

If it were Ontario, CA, a landing would be required. There are some exceptions, but none seem to fit the scenario you're describing. We would cite:

1011.6 Stairway landings. There shall be a floor or landing
at the top and bottom of each stairway. The width of landings,
measured perpendicularly to the direction of travel,
shall be not less than the width of stairways served. Every
landing shall have a minimum depth, measured parallel to
the direction of travel, equal to the width of the stairway or
48 inches (1219 mm), whichever is less. Doors opening
onto a landing shall not reduce the landing to less than one
-half the required width. When fully open, the door shall not
project more than 7 inches (178 mm) into the required width
of a landing. Where wheelchair spaces are required on the
stairway landing in accordance with Section 1009.6.3, the
wheelchair space shall not be located in the required width
of the landing and doors shall not swing over the wheelchair
spaces.
Exceptions:
1. Where stairways connect stepped aisles to cross
aisles or concourses, stairway landings are not
required at the transition between stairways and
stepped aisles constructed in accordance with Section
1030.
2. Where curved stairways of constant radius have
intermediate landings, the landing depth shall be
measured horizontally between the intersection of
the walkline of the lower flight at the landing nosing
and the intersection of the walkline of the upper
flight at the nosing of the lowest tread of the upper
flight.
3. Where a landing turns 90 degrees (1.57 rad) or
more, the minimum landing depth in accordance
with this section shall not be required where the
landing provided is not less than that described by
an arc with a radius equal to the width of the flight
served.
4. In Group R-3 occupancies a floor or landing is not
required at the top of an interior flight of stairs,
including stairs in an enclosed garage, provided a
door does not swing over the stairs.

 

[Joe.B]

I've never looked at Canadian codes before, but a quick google search bright this up at the top. Looks legit to me...

Ontario’s Building Code

Learn more about Ontario’s Building Code so you can meet our building regulations.

www.ontario.ca

 

[korcraft]

Oh I misunderstood his response.

I thought he meant to check the Canadian codes.

This was the first forum that came up when I searched for Canadian code forum.

I didn't realise there were different sections on here for Canada vs USA

Appreciate the heads up.

 

[Sifu]

This was the first forum that came up when I searched for Canadian code forum.

Glad it was the first to come up, because it is the best.... IMO.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

This is National Building Code 2020, not Ontario Building Code, but it's highly likely to be similar.

 

[korcraft]

Yes. I have seen that. Would a "landing" not be like a final step?

This is what I am trying to clear up for myself. Seems crazy that if I had a 50" wide stair case that I would need 50" from the bottom step before I could place a door.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

Yes. I have seen that. Would a "landing" not be like a final step?

This is what I am trying to clear up for myself. Seems crazy that if I had a 50" wide stair case that I would need 50" from the bottom step before I could place a door.

Code often has exceptions. Since you were a homeowner not a building official, I didn't want to confuse you with extra stuff. NBC would allow 43" in your case. However... I did some digging. Ontario Building Code has some differences.




So the width has to be 50"; but the length can be 34" in your case, unless there's odd things that you didn't know you needed to tell us ....

 

[korcraft]

I used 50" as an example. I just went and took some actual measurements.

The width of the stair case is 38 & 7/8"

I will attach some pictures.

Fro. The bottom step to the door on the to the left that goes into another room is 26"

I was hoping to put a door close to that door which would leave me with about a 20" to 22" landing area. Which would function perfectly fine in reality. I am wondering if code would prohibit this or if there are any practical reasons that I cannot think of that would make doing this a problem.

 

[korcraft]

For some reason the forum turned all the photos sideways but it should still be obvious what the space looks like.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

I was hoping to put a door close to that door which would leave me with about a 20" to 22" landing area. Which would function perfectly fine in reality. I am wondering if code would prohibit this or if there are any practical reasons that I cannot think of that would make doing this a problem.

As I read it, you'd not be able to do that and meet Code. The length would still have to be 34" (33 and 7/8" but who's quibbling.)

 

[korcraft]

Interesting. I certainly understand the code for an external landing of some sort.

Seems unneccesary for an internal door.

Appreciate the insights

 

[ICE]

basement stairs as I am turning the whole space into a bedroom

The Canadians should be asking questions.

 

[Joe.B]

I was hoping to put a door close to that door which would leave me with about a 20" to 22" landing area. Which would function perfectly fine in reality. I am wondering if code would prohibit this or if there are any practical reasons that I cannot think of that would make doing this a problem.

When thinking of the term "landing", and the phrase "after a fall" to it. That might explain why a smaller area would seem to function "perfectly fine" and most of the time, it would. Often not a lot of code makes sense until you think of edge case scenarios.

 

[Joe.B]

 

[korcraft]

Well that's what I mean. I understand this if there was an edge involved. But all that is beyond the "landing area" in my case is more landing area...there just happens to be a door there too.

That's why I'm not quite sure that this part of the code applies to my situation. And the reason to come to a forum like this, where I can't come up with the search criteria for google to understand what I mean. It just keeps assuming there is an elevated landing area.

 

[Inspector Gift]

First question I want to ask is if the basement has a code compliant emergency egress window? Then seeing the pics, I appears there isn't a continuous handrail for the stairs. And yes, I agree that a landing is required at the bottom of the stairs. If this is a single-family dwelling, a landing would need to be 36 inches in the direction of travel (R311.7.6).

 

[korcraft]

Yes there are several emergency egress windows. This is a side split so only half the basement is below grade. There are two quite large windows in the room as well as a walk out door on the other side of the basement.

You are correct there is no rail. Another thing I must remedy as a part of this conversion.

It is single family dwelling.

It appears minimum 34" or 36".

Some google searches suggest 18" minimum. But of course that comes with a "check local building codes" message.

 

[korcraft]

Yes the door opens into the room and away from the stairs.

In my perfect world there would be a landing area that is exactly as wide as the stairs and is as long in the direction of travel as the depth of 3 stair treads.

In reality this is a home I live in and have no issue not meeting code knowing what I am doing is not unsafe. Headroom will be there...no tripping hazard etc.

If I ever sold and it was a problem, I could literally just remove the door entirely.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

That's why I'm not quite sure that this part of the code applies to my situation. And the reason to come to a forum like this, where I can't come up with the search criteria for google to understand what I mean. It just keeps assuming there is an elevated landing area.

Respectfully, unless the entire premise underlying building codes in Canada is different than in the U.S., this is clearly an example of wrongthink. The only time a provision of the code does not apply is if the code includes a written exception that tells you that provision doesn't apply to your situation. Building codes are not like a Chinese menu, where you scan through the pages and decide to order one of each provision you like, and skip over any provisions you don't like.

 

[korcraft]

That is not what I mean. What I mean is, I'm not sure this particular part of the code is actually referring to what it is I'm doing.

For example: there are different code requirements similar things that are interior vs exterior. There are likely overlaps but also things that apply if the application is exterior vs if the application is interior.

So that is what I mean by "I'm not sure that this part of the code applies to my situation". Not because I am just going to rip that page out and ignore that it exists...but because I am not sure that it is referring to the specific application that I am trying to figure out.

I'm not sure that could be considered "wrong think".

And that is why I am here trying to clarify. Because to someone who has a decent knowledge of building generally, but not the building code...reading the code can seem overwhelming, confusing and unclear. Often leaving someone like myself with more questions than they answered.

 

[Joe.B]

Many of us who are responding to the question you posed are code officials and we deal with the kind of reaction you're having on a regular basis. Don't be to surprised if the reactions you receive sound annoyed. It's because it is annoying. You're getting solid (and free mind you) advice from a group of people who have dedicated their professional career to understanding the extremely complex world of building codes. Your response is akin to "Well, I didn't get the answer I wanted, so I'm going to argue it." Or "Well, I don't understand it, so it must not apply to me."

Have you considered something like this?

You could light some incense too if you want. Or, better yet, burn some sage and clear out all this negative energy.