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down spouts and walkways

J

JayHawkInspector

Guest
I have a commercial building in plan check right now, basically the problem I’m having is in the front of the building there are four down spouts from the gutter and they are discharging right on top the concrete walkway that lead to the main entrance of the building and my question is are there any codes that prohibited this or is this just a design issue?
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

Is the walkway on the same property with the building? Is the walkway part of the means of egress discharge to the public way?

1101.2 Where required.

All roofs, paved areas, yards, courts and courtyards shall drain into a separate storm sewer system, or a combined sewer system, or to an approved place of disposal. For one- and two-family dwellings, and where approved, storm water is permitted to discharge onto flat areas, such as streets or lawns, provided that the storm water flows away from the building.
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

The walkway is right next to the building and as for the walkway being part of means of egress to the public way is up to interpretation.
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

We are constantly pointing this exact problem out with out of state warm climate Architects. During certain times of the year during evening and early morning hours what you describe will create ice skating rinks for side walks and parking lots. Most DP's are glad for the input
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

JayHawk - "...as for the walkway being part of means of egress to the public way is up to interpretation." Yes, it is. YOURS! (assuming you are the Code Official)

Hazardous for the reasons espoused by my esteemed colleague from Montana.
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

Well most large commercial projects here drain to a retention area.

Then again we only get 7 inches of rain and 1-maybe 2 weeks of cold weather. :roll:
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

JayHawkInspector said:
The walkway is right next to the building and as for the walkway being part of means of egress to the public way is up to interpretation.
Click to expand...
If that's the best you can cite, allow the discharge even if it is bad design.
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

Are they draining the AC units on top of the roof also????
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

JayHawkInspector,

You can use Section 102.9 in the 2006 IPC.

102.9 Requirements not covered by code.

Any requirements necessary for the strength, stability or proper operation of an existing or proposed

plumbing system, or for the public safety, health and general welfare, not specifically covered by this

code shall be determined by the code official.

I agree with John D. & mtlogcabin! The code official is the one to determine if the 'proposed' area of

discharge will present a hazard to the public. Also, in some areas of warm, humid conditions, that green

slimy stuff could present a potential slip hazard too! Or, you 'could' follow the gentleman from Alabama'

suggestion and allow the [ questionable ] design.

brudgers suggested:

If that's the best you can cite, allow the discharge even if it is bad design.
Click to expand...
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Re: down spouts and walkways

Northstar, I don't believe you can quote the IPC...this has nothing to do with plumbing.
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

Mule said:
Northstar, I don't believe you can quote the IPC...this has nothing to do with plumbing.
Click to expand...
He wasn't actually quoting anything, he was just making up a reason to say no.

The code allows construction which requires ongoing maintenance...even when it upsets a code official.
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

101.3 Intent. The purpose of this code is to establish the minimum

requirements to safeguard the public health, safety and

general welfare through structural strength, means of egress

facilities, stability, sanitation, adequate light and ventilation,

energy conservation, and safety to life and property from fire

and other hazards attributed to the built environment and to

provide safety to fire fighters and emergency responders during

emergency operations.
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

If the opinion BO determines that the installation will cause a unsafe situation then I believe he could require a change in the plans.

brudgers, if you designed a building that was unsafe, even though you met the "minimum" code, do you think you would be liable IF someone were to be injured because of your design? You see it happen all the time.

Would you design a building like this?
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

JayHawk,

Sounds like a design issue, double check your muni-code!

*Don't think Mizzou can handle the big boy Aldridge inside! :cry:

Professor brudgers,

We would'nt want that "serving wench" to slip and fall with our ale's would we? :eek:
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

From the 2006 IPC, Chapter 2 - Definitions:

Leader: An exterior drain pipe for conveying storm water from the roof or

gutter drains "to an approved method of disposal."



Also, see Section 1106.2 - Vertical conductors and leaders. Vertical conductors and leaders shall be sized for

the maximum projected roof area, in accordance with Table 1106.2. PLEASE REFER TO TABLE 1106.2 IN

THE `06 IPC. [ I could not ' cut & paste ' the table into this message. ]

Kinda sounds like a plumbing issue to me! ;)

_
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

Brudgers

If a BO gave you a FYI about the hazards of this design due to the climatic conditions in winter areas would you not pass this on to your client so as reduce their potential liability prior to a slip and fall claim later?

Coug Dad what code does 1101.2 refer to?

I have inlcuded many FYI comments that where not addressed by the adopted code. I do this for 2 reasons

1: Good customer service will create a better final product.

2: CYA if the building department gets called into testify or some request to look at a project file there is documentation that the DP/Owner was aware of a potential problem.
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

mtlogcabin,

All that CYA & customer service stuff is not ' billable time '. You know that the private sector isn't

going to do anything extra, that they can't bill for.

As I have tried to tell you good people on here before,

"It's all about the money! :D

_
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

Mule brought up a good point about roof AC units. If they are discharging thier condensate to the gutter, IMC Section 307.2.1 could prohibit the discharge to the sidewalk as it would "cause a nuisance".

GPE
 
Re: down spouts and walkways

GPE,

Great input! :)

This is why this forum works so well! We have a plethera of information available to all.

[ Almost ] everyone wants to assist in some positive manner.
 
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