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Drinking Fountains and Accessible Bathrooms Required?

ADAguy

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Sep 11, 2013
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I’m thinking drinking fountains are required, but I wonder how long it will be before they are replaced by bottled water and paper cups due to covid. A lot of places i go, i see crime scene tape blocking the DF.
Only " if provided, must a DF comply. Don't provide it if you so desire.
 

Sifu

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Sep 3, 2011
Messages
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If they are not designated as separate facilities (Male/Female) then only one has to be accessible because both sexes can use either facility and you meet the 5% requirement that determines how many accessible water closets you need
The restroom on the 2nd floor is not on an accessible route and therefore not required to be accessible

1109.2.2 Water closet compartment.
Where water closet compartments are provided in a toilet room or bathing room, at least 5 percent of the total number of compartments shall be wheelchair accessible. Where the combined total water closet compartments and urinals provided in a toilet room or bathing room is six or more, at least 5 percent of the total number of compartments shall be ambulatory accessible, provided in addition to the wheelchair-accessible compartment.
We are sent to the IBC by IEBC 305.6, where the IBC provides that "each toilet room and bathing room must be accessible" per IBC1109.1. 1109.2.2 is for compartments within a toilet room, not the toilet room itself. What is proposed are single user toilet rooms. I agree the second floor toilet room is specifically exempted by IEBC 305.6 & 305.7 since there are no alterations being done to any areas of primary function up there. But I think that the two downstairs that are in areas where alterations are being done to the areas of primary function, that they would both be required to be accessible. I'll get the CBO's opinion.
 

mtlogcabin

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Big Sky Country
If this is a single tenant I don't see the issue. Where do you find the requirements for more than one accessible restroom if both are "gender neutral"
Th 2021 attempts to address this and if you have not adopted it yet I suggest you use it for guidance and possible approval under
[A] 104.10 Modifications.
Where there are practical difficulties involved in carrying out the provisions of this code, the building official shall have the authority to grant modifications for individual cases, upon application of the owner or the owner’s authorized agent, provided that the building official shall first find that special individual reason makes the strict letter of this code impractical, the modification is in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code and that such modification does not lessen health, accessibility, life and fire safety or structural requirements. The details of action granting modifications shall be recorded and entered in the files of the department of building safety.

2021 IBC

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1650904183128.png
 

ADAguy

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Sep 11, 2013
Messages
6,209
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California
We are sent to the IBC by IEBC 305.6, where the IBC provides that "each toilet room and bathing room must be accessible" per IBC1109.1. 1109.2.2 is for compartments within a toilet room, not the toilet room itself. What is proposed are single user toilet rooms. I agree the second floor toilet room is specifically exempted by IEBC 305.6 & 305.7 since there are no alterations being done to any areas of primary function up there. But I think that the two downstairs that are in areas where alterations are being done to the areas of primary function, that they would both be required to be accessible. I'll get the CBO's opinion.
Sifu, other than the CBO, have you informed the tenant of the barrier removal requirement for existing buildings by the ADA? If it exists it must comply.
 

Sifu

Sawhorse
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
1,790
If this is a single tenant I don't see the issue. Where do you find the requirements for more than one accessible restroom if both are "gender neutral"
Th 2021 attempts to address this and if you have not adopted it yet I suggest you use it for guidance and possible approval under
[A] 104.10 Modifications.
Where there are practical difficulties involved in carrying out the provisions of this code, the building official shall have the authority to grant modifications for individual cases, upon application of the owner or the owner’s authorized agent, provided that the building official shall first find that special individual reason makes the strict letter of this code impractical, the modification is in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code and that such modification does not lessen health, accessibility, life and fire safety or structural requirements. The details of action granting modifications shall be recorded and entered in the files of the department of building safety.

2021 IBC

View attachment 8867
View attachment 8865
I find that in 1109.2. No matter how many separate facilities you have, they must all be accessible unless you meet one of the 7 exceptions.. This is not to say you can't pronoun them however you want, only that if there is a toilet room, it must be accessible. The question is where do you enforce that in an existing building. Since there were no alterations to the to remaining non-accessible toilet rooms, the CBO is allowing them to remain non-accessible. The only practical difficulty here is they want to maximize work space and save money. That isn't valid IMHO. Now, is it better? Yes. Can I live with it? Yes. Does it meet the IEBC...still don't know for sure. My understanding of the basic premise of the accessible standards is that they are meant to provide equivalent facilities. In this case, if there are three bathrooms that a non-handicapped person can use, the code wants those same three to be usable by those who are handicapped, whenever reasonable, possible and unless by specific exception. Of course "reasonable" is a moving target. What the DP, owner, contractor or myself may find reasonable, the DOJ might not. That's why I rely on the published standards and codes.
 

Sifu

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Sep 3, 2011
Messages
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Sifu, other than the CBO, have you informed the tenant of the barrier removal requirement for existing buildings by the ADA? If it exists it must comply.
I explained that I was merely trying to conduct a little risk management because he had responsibilities beyond the limits of my guidance. Otherwise, I don't even like invoking the ADA.
 

mark handler

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Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
11,230
Location
So. CA
2019 CALIFORNIA PLUMBING CODE
Urinal and Drinking fountain (or Bottle filling Station) required CPC TABLE 422.1

Effective March 1, 2017, California Law requires that all single-user toilet facilities in any business establishment, place of public accommodation, or government agency to be identified as All-Gender toilet facilities. As a result, all such facilities in those workplaces shall be updated with signage consistent with this new law.

The text of the law can be found here:
 

ADAguy

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Sep 11, 2013
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Location
California
I explained that I was merely trying to conduct a little risk management because he had responsibilities beyond the limits of my guidance. Otherwise, I don't even like invoking the ADA.
What are your limits?
He needs to know what the ADA requires too.
 

Sifu

Sawhorse
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
1,790
What are your limits?
He needs to know what the ADA requires too.
My limits are the administration of the IBC and ANSI 117.1 standard. He does need to know what the ADA says, but that is his responsibility. Whenever I have an ambiguous or unusually contentious point I will look to the ADA, the access board or other codes and standards I am familiar with for guidance, but I don't enforce them. If I find any particularly useful information I will share it, but am very careful to only administer the codes my AHJ has adopted.
 
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