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Egress into a shallow pit.

PONCE_556

PONCE_556

Registered User
Joined
Jul 5, 2017
Messages
20
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Hope y'all might be able to help me out.

I'm looking to find what code would apply, if any, in my case.

I have a below grade fiberglass pit that's 8' x 4' x 30" and need to find out what code would apply with regards to egress in and out ot it.

This is a limited access area.

Thanks
 
Guessing that is 8' long, 4' wide and 30" deep?
Would help to know what it is used for and what year edition of the Codes are in effect in your location...
 
What is the planned access to this area?

Is the pit in an enclosed building

Is this pit the only thing in the building or other equipment or the building is for equipment only
 
How close is it to any buildings? Are there just pipes entering and exiting, or are there shafts/ducts in there?

I don't think you'll find much in the ICC codes for this. Seems NFPA has a code/standard for everything including tying your shoes so they may have something, and maybe look at OSHA requirements as well.
 
Wait a minute,,,,, I am more than 30 deep!!!!

Is the entire lid hinged, half of it, 1/4 of it??

I am thinking get down on your knees reach end fix what ever close the lid and go home???????

What am I missing??/
 
cda said:
Wait a minute,,,,, I am more than 30 deep!!!!

Is the entire lid hinged, half of it, 1/4 of it??

I am thinking get down on your knees reach end fix what ever close the lid and go home???????

What am I missing??/
Click to expand...

No, 30" is max depth.

Hinged to open on long side. (see pic)

You could do reach down but it's designed to to into.

You're missing the guy at the health department saying it somehow meets the same requirements and a staircase in an occupied building.....:confused:

BTW....There are steps provided to go into it. The issue is they want to to install some type of handrail. But we can't find anyhwere in the code that requires us to.
 
PONCE_556 said:
No, 30" is max depth.

Hinged to open on long side. (see pic)

You could do reach down but it's designed to to into.

You're missing the guy at the health department saying it somehow meets the same requirements and a staircase in an occupied building.....:confused:

BTW....There are steps provided to go into it. The issue is they want to to install some type of handrail. But we can't find anyhwere in the code that requires us to.
Click to expand...




Ok my 30"

Equals

2 feet 6 inches

So the thing is never over 2'6" deep????


Like I said some people are deeper than that.

It's Thursday 100 degrees what am I missing???
 
WAIT! How big are the people there?!?! Are they tiny? Can the tiny people lift the door themselves?

Seriously though... What is the building official on?
 
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Picture is worth a thousand words! It looks like a coffin doubling as a mechanical equipment well.
Service person brings a ladder with him. It is an unoccupiable space.
 
Install a handhold if it will shut them up

Be nice to know what code/ standard section they are using to require all this???

Good luck
 
cda said:
Install a handhold if it will shut them up

Be nice to know what code/ standard section they are using to require all this???

Good luck
Click to expand...

As you can see we did.....Just to shut them up.

But the problem is, if it's not in the code, we shouldn't have to. These things cost money....

If it's in the code fine, let them show me the section and I'll do it. Or I'll explain why we feel the code doesn't apply.

And it sets a precedent. This is not by any means the only pit we have in FL nor will it be the last.

-----------

First they said we could put a ship's ladder in (no joke) and cited FBC 454.1.5.4 as reasoning.

I sent them this email.

Is the section below the one you're citing for the reason you're requiring a handrail be installed?

I read it as such, as it applies to our pumping pit.

454.1.5.4 Ventilation.
Equipment rooms (This is not a room.) shall have either forced draft or cross ventilation. All below-grade equipment rooms (Again...not a room.) shall have a stairway access with forced draft ventilation or a fully louvered door and powered intake within 6 inches (152 mm) of the floor. Where stairway access is not necessary to carry heavy items (I would concur, no heavy items would be taken in or out of the pit. That would include chemical jugs, as those cannot be stored in the pit.) into the below grade room or vault (I don't believe this technically is a vault, but it sure isn't a room.), a “ship's ladder” may be used ("May", not "shall.") if specified ("If", not "must.") by the design engineer (The "Engineer", not the "D.O.H.") who must consider anticipated workload including equipment removal; and the ladder slope, tread height and width; and construction material of the ladder.

If this is not the section you're citing, can you please provide a code citation that specifically applies to your stipulation we install a handrail?

If it is this section, can you please explain how you're interpreting that a handrail is required?
Click to expand...

The reply I got back was..... "...will discuss with my supervisor on Monday."

And I never heard back.

The guy now, different guy, cited FBC SECTION 1009 which literally starts out saying.
1009.1 General.
Stairways serving occupied portions of a building shall comply with the requirements of this section.
Click to expand...
 
I
PONCE_556 said:
As you can see we did.....Just to shut them up.

But the problem is, if it's not in the code, we shouldn't have to. These things cost money....

If it's in the code fine, let them show me the section and I'll do it. Or I'll explain why we feel the code doesn't apply.

And it sets a precedent. This is not by any means the only pit we have in FL nor will it be the last.

-----------

First they said we could put a ship's ladder in (no joke) and cited FBC 454.1.5.4 as reasoning.

I sent them this email.



The reply I got back was..... "...will discuss with my supervisor on Monday."

And I never heard back.

The guy now, different guy, cited FBC SECTION 1009 which literally starts out saying.
Click to expand...
PONCE_556 said:
As you can see we did.....Just to shut them up.

But the problem is, if it's not in the code, we shouldn't have to. These things cost money....

If it's in the code fine, let them show me the section and I'll do it. Or I'll explain why we feel the code doesn't apply.

And it sets a precedent. This is not by any means the only pit we have in FL nor will it be the last.

-----------

First they said we could put a ship's ladder in (no joke) and cited FBC 454.1.5.4 as reasoning.

I sent them this email.



The reply I got back was..... "...will discuss with my supervisor on Monday."

And I never heard back.

The guy now, different guy, cited FBC SECTION 1009 which literally starts out saying.
Click to expand...


I agree if not in the code not required

As an ahj I try not to cheat or guess

A wise old inspector told me

" If you do not know the code,,, you cannot enforce it"

I would start with the head of the dept, than go to appeal
 
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cda said:
I




I agree if not in the code not required

As an ahj I try not to cheat or guess

A wise old inspector told me

" If you do not know the code,,, you cannot enforce it"

I would start with the head of the dept, than go to appeal
Click to expand...

That's kind of the issue. All the old guys are retiring and we've got new inspectors.

--

There's also the aspect of this project being a city project and the city dropped the ball on the permitting process, among other things, and didn't send the job to the DOH so they didn't even know about it till we were about to call for final inspection.

Want to piss off an inspector and make sure he finds something wrong? Have him get a call from the a large city telling him they F'ed up and he needs to drop everything he's doing and review a set of plans.
 
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