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Egress window for open loft

mark handler said:
Loft?...
cabin_interior2.jpg
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I think Mark has the right idea with this picture. "2009 IRC, definitions. Mezzanine, Loft. An intermediate level or levels between the floor and ceiling of any story with an aggregate floor area of not more than one-third of the area of the room or space in which the level or levels, are located." It is NOT a bedroom and does not require separate emergency egress. Uncle Bob
 
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I would recommend an egress window, but would not require it.

NBCC:

9.7.1.2.Bedroom Windows1)Except where the suite is sprinklered, each bedroom or combination bedroom shall have at least one outside window or exterior door openable from the inside without the use of keys, tools or special knowledge and without the removal of sashes or hardware. (See Article 9.5.1.2. and Appendix A.)

2)The window referred to in Sentence (1) shall

a) provide an unobstructed opening of not less than 0.35 m2 in area with no dimension less than 380 mm, and

b) maintain the required opening during an emergency without the need for additional support.
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Since there are no walls, it would be arbitrary to say where the bedroom ends. I can't see how this could be tested in court. I could argue that the stairs down to the main level and a passage large enough to travel to the front door is all part of the bedroom, complying with the requirements for the window. Unless you have an established procedure you need to tread carefully as the decision rendered in this case will become precedent, so some thought to future situations might be in order.
 
I agree it could/would set a precedent......then at what point does that cute open guard, become a half height wall, a 3/4 height wall, a full wall with no door, to what degree of separation are you willing to accept/defend?

Each of us need to know that limit and be willing to stand by it.
 
Say you have only the compliant egress door from this small cabin, with someone sleeping in the

upstairs loft, ..magically, there is a fire event that blocks the front door egressing capability.

Now what?

.
 
globe trekker said:
Say you have only the compliant egress door from this small cabin, with someone sleeping in theupstairs loft, ..magically, there is a fire event that blocks the front door egressing capability.

Now what?

.
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Same that happens in a motel 6, run faster out the front door
 
Some people still live in one room houses. Even though the code does not seem to like them
 
Uncle Bob said:
I think Mark has the right idea with this picture. "2009 IRC, definitions. Mezzanine, Loft. An intermediate level or levels between the floor and ceiling of any story with an aggregate floor area of not more than one-third of the area of the room or space in which the level or levels, are located." It is NOT a bedroom and does not require separate emergency egress. Uncle Bob
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By definition the loft is not another room, or a bedroom; it is part of the room or space in which the level or levels are located. Some are using emotional arguments to force people to apply codes that are not applicable. A loft is "part of a room"; not a room. You can have a loft in your bedroom if the ceiling is high enough.
 
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Uncle Bob said:
I think Mark has the right idea with this picture. "2009 IRC, definitions. Mezzanine, Loft. An intermediate level or levels between the floor and ceiling of any story with an aggregate floor area of not more than one-third of the area of the room or space in which the level or levels, are located." It is NOT a bedroom and does not require separate emergency egress. Uncle Bob
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The only place that I can find mezzanine or loft in the IRC is the definition that Mark posted. The only obvious reason for the definition is to limit the size of a mezzanine or loft.

The only parameter given in the definition is a size limit.

The argument is made that a loft could not be a room because there is not a continuous perimeter of walls. Ergo, no EERO required without a sleeping "room". I haven't found a reason in the code to accept that.

I look at this question of an EERO not as one answered by semantics but rather life/safety.

So let's add a wall to the loft. Hey now, there is a room and it's labeled bedroom (nobody calls them sleeping rooms)

Okay folks add fire. The stairs are ablaze at midnight. How awful is that? Well not too bad because the lucky bastard woke up in a sleeping room and there is an EERO.

Now let's take away the wall and turn the space back into a loft. Who Ya gonna call. He should start with the fire dept. because he was dumb enough to wake up in a "not a sleeping room" that's labeled bedroom without an EERO.

So far, I haven't seen any compelling argument either way. That being the case I would be inclined to require an EERO unless the building had been approved as is. The building in question is being moved into the city so it shall comply as if it were new.
 
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Ice, You have just provided a good example of what I stated in my post, just before yours. But lets take your assumption that a loft must meet the requirements of a bedroom. Your “loft” would require the following, according to the 2009 IRC;

1. You would be required to build a stairway (could not have a ladder) that meets the egress requirements R311.7. The stairway would have to have a landing at the top and bottom, a headroom of not less than 6’8” and have a light switch at the top and bottom. That will greatly diminish the area of the room the loft is in.

2. You would have to add arc-fault protected receptacles in the loft (because you are calling it a bedroom); receptacles installed so no space is more than 6’ from a receptacle; including along the railings, if any. Oops, almost forgot a switch-controlled light outlet in the loft.

3. The loft would have to have a headroom of not less than 7 feet, and since it’s a bedroom the loft must be not less than 70 sq. ft.; with no part of the “required” space less than 5 ft. in height.

4. The loft would also have to have a separate smoke alarm.

4. And, of course the emergency escape and rescue opening (window) requirement.

The above are some of the requirements for a bedroom; and not a loft which by definition is within a room. A loft is not, by definition a room; it is a raised area within a room, and should be observed no differently than a raised floor area within a room. I agree that a room with a loft used for sleeping should meet the requirements for sleeping area; but not the loft as a separate room; because it is not a separate room. It is a raised area within a room.

 
cda said:
Lets play loft or bedroomloft or bedroom

http://www.thetinylife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/loft-bed-full-sized.jpg

loft or bedroom

http://crosscreekcabinsv.com/loft%20bed.JPG

loft or bedroom

http://ccithaca.com/images/gallery/12Loft-Room.jpg
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I see bedrooms with with a raised bed.

Note that mezzanine and loft are given the same definition in the code.

They are an intermediate level wholly contained within a room or space.

A mattress on a platform hardly constitutes an intermediate level.

An intermediate level is floor space, not furniture.
 
An intermediate level is floor space

is there a minimum size for it to be classified as floor space
 
I just ran across this while researching the code requirements on the internet; and glory be; right from the horse's mouth of the one who wrote the 2009 IRC definition of lofts. "If you are ever challenged on the use of a ladder for non-habitable loft, be assured that the code allows it by default. Intentionally, there are no requirements for non-habitable loft access. I know this as I am the one that wrote this code section as it is currently provided for in the 2009 IRC. Fresh from the horse's mouth...not its posterior." I just started reading his article. He is Tom Meyers of Berthoud, Colorado. Sustainable Building Codes: Tiny House Building Code Compliance Part 2 It's about time someone with clout took an interest in poor folks right to have a home. :) And, yes there are building officials who will not allow you to build a loft in your home without going to court.
 
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