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Electric baseboard and electric wall heaters in COMcheck

Sifu

Sifu

SAWHORSE
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
2,813
Should electric baseboard and electric wall heaters be included in COMcheck mechanical compliance? I ran a test report and I don't see them included in the options. How are they treated when it comes to the IECC?
 
I could find nothing in the IECC now, which surprised me because of the 100% expensive thing. Then again, they seem to want all electric for everything now so I guess I'm not surprised.
 
Around here, where electricity is lower cost than some places (~16¢/kWh), low cost builds use wood (plentiful here) as primary and electric baseboard as back-up. The low initial cost covers a lot. Not to mention NY State just outlawed gas in new construction.
 
This is a commercial building with a lot of windows, under which they are installing electric baseboards. I was just wondering if they are regulated since they are not included in the COMcheck.
 
Sifu said:
This is a commercial building with a lot of windows, under which they are installing electric baseboards. I was just wondering if they are regulated since they are not included in the COMcheck.
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Again...they are 100% efficient so there is no need to create efficiency standards, so there are no standards to meet, so there is no need to put them in as a tradeoff in Comcheck....If that makes sense...If anything they would give you more credit from being so efficient....Just watch for receptacles above them...Manufacturers generally don't allow them...
 
steveray said:
Again...they are 100% efficient so there is no need to create efficiency standards
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But heat pumps are generally more than 100% efficient by the usual metric (heat moved / electricity used), so that makes electric baseboard an inefficient choice.

Cheers, Wayne
 
steveray said:
Ohhhh...so they generate electricity because they are soooo efficient?....perfect.... ;)
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Come on... be reasonable. I know you know better...

Look, I am no fan of the push towards electrification. I am quite fond of natural gas. But I also understand that a heat pump is more than 100% efficient - not because it generates electricity, but because it is a mechanism for transferring energy (heat). Energy, in the form of electricity or natural gas, is used to drive a vapor compression cycle that relies upon the exchange of heat between a exterior and interior environment. Thus, energy from the environment is captured or released, resulting in an efficiency great than 100%.
 
I get it...hence the wink....But that is some marketing BS right there.....If we could make more energy than we put in, the world would be a better place...
 
steveray said:
I get it...hence the wink....But that is some marketing BS right there.....If we could make more energy than we put in, the world would be a better place...
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Not at all marketing BS. It's a ratio of (thing you want / thing it costs you to provide). Since in this case the numerator and denominator are not both part of the same closed system, there's no physical restriction requiring the ratio to be less than 100%.

Same thing applies with natural gas--you can burn it directly, or you can use it to run an absorption heat pump. If you use an absorption heat pump, you can get a ratio of (heat delivered / combustion heat value of gas consumed) that is greater than 100%.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
But heat pumps are generally more than 100% efficient by the usual metric
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By the unusual metric, a heat pump is infinitely efficient as people can't afford to operate them. And let's not forget that there's not enough electricity available to keep us all cool at the same time.
 
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