Elevator machine room rating

[Sifu]

I have an elevator machine room that is not rated as a one hour fire barrier. The room is adjacent to the shaft. It is a two story B occupancy, type V (I think). The elevator is not part of the MOE except for accessibility. Working out of 2009 IBC, section 3006.4 requires the room to be a fire barrier unless it does not abut the shaft. Therefore, from what I know it must be a fire barrier. I discussed this with the superintendent and he agrees....., Today I got an email from the PM and architect claiming that the room did not need a rated fire barrier because the elevator company specs say it is not required. In addition to that, apparently our former plans examiner agreed but unfortunately he is a former plans examiner and I can't ask him. I have great respect for his knowledge so I am now wondering what I don't know. I have requested the "specs" that indicate no fire barrier is required but wonder if any of you learned folks have any input that will shed some light for me. Do the "specs" over-ride the code for this??? BTW, the room has a frameless double swing door (like a kitchen door) and an air transfer grill to the adjacent riser room and an electrical closet, it is otherwise constructed as a 1hr fire barrier.

 

[cda]

Code normally over rules

Double swing doors on an elevator machine room, interesting

 

[cda]

4 Machine rooms and machinery spaces. Elevator machine rooms and machinery spaces shall be enclosed with fire barriers constructed in accordance with Section 707 or horizontal assemblies constructed in accordance with Section 712, or both. The fire-resistance rating shall not be less than the required rating of the hoistway enclosure served by the machinery. Openings in the fire barriers shall be protected with assemblies having a fire protection rating not less than that required for the hoistway enclosure doors.

Exceptions:

1. Where machine rooms and machinery spaces do not abut and have no openings to the hoistway enclosure they serve the fire barriers constructed in accordance with Section 707 or horizontal assemblies constructed in accordance with Section 712, or both, shall be permitted to be reduced to a 1-hour fire-resistance rating.

2. In buildings four stories or less above grade plane when machine room and machinery spaces do not abut and have no openings to the hoistway enclosure they serve, the machine room and machinery spaces are not required to be fire-resistance rated.

This section acknowledges that there will inherently be openings between the hoistway and the machine room. This protection is required to be both vertical and horizontal; therefore, to maintain the fire-resistance rating required for the hoistway, the machine room must be protected with a fire barrier and horizontal assemblies, both with opening protectives. There are two exceptions to this requirement. The first allows the reduction of the fire-resistance-rated enclosure to 1 hour where the machine room or space does not abut the hoistway. In other words, the machine room or space is in a location where no connection is made with the hoistway. This reduction only applies in buildings connecting four or more stories because the code only requires a 1-hour enclosure for the hoistway and machine room in buildings with elevator hoistways connecting three stories or less. The second exception provides the reduction from 1 hour to no fire-resistance rating for buildings connecting four stories or less. The second exception is dependent upon the machine room or machine room not abutting and having no openings into the hoistway.

In case you do not have the commentary ::

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ibc/2009f2cc/index.htm?bu2=undefined

 

[Msradell]

Code normally over rules

Very True and adding on that it's either the code or the manufacturer provided information that's used depending on which is more restrictive. If the code says one hour in the manufacturer says 4 hours you have to comply with the manufacturers information.

Double swing doors on an elevator machine room, interesting

I've certainly never seen it before and certainly don't see any way you could meet code requirements.

 

[cda]

I have an elevator machine room that is not rated as a one hour fire barrier. The room is adjacent to the shaft. It is a two story B occupancy, type V (I think). The elevator is not part of the MOE except for accessibility. Working out of 2009 IBC, section 3006.4 requires the room to be a fire barrier unless it does not abut the shaft. Therefore, from what I know it must be a fire barrier. I discussed this with the superintendent and he agrees....., Today I got an email from the PM and architect claiming that the room did not need a rated fire barrier because the elevator company specs say it is not required. In addition to that, apparently our former plans examiner agreed but unfortunately he is a former plans examiner and I can't ask him. I have great respect for his knowledge so I am now wondering what I don't know. I have requested the "specs" that indicate no fire barrier is required but wonder if any of you learned folks have any input that will shed some light for me. Do the "specs" over-ride the code for this??? BTW, the room has a frameless double swing door (like a kitchen door) and an air transfer grill to the adjacent riser room and an electrical closet, it is otherwise constructed as a 1hr fire barrier.

Are you able to post a simple floor plan

 

[cda]

http://specsandcodes.typepad.com/the_code_corner/2012/02/elevators.html

 

[Sifu]

Correction on code summary: Type II-B, Occupancy A-2 and M. I also think the most restrictive applies. Will try to upload a page but in looking at the plan it does appear the room is designed as a fire barrier so I can't figure out where this went off the rails.

 

[cda]

which state is this in??

Is there any state oversight on elevators?

In our state the state also regulates elevators, and they do not like anything in thier elevator rooms, plus one hour room.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Not all elevators require a machine room. Traction elevators usually have a room for the dedicated electrical panels which would not be required to be rated. What kind of elevator is it?

 

[mtlogcabin]

[h=2]Machine-Room-Less (MRL) Elevators[/h]

Machine-Room-Less Elevators are traction elevators that do not have a dedicated machine room above the elevator shaft. The machine sits in the override space and is accessed from the top of the elevator cab when maintenance or repairs are required. The control boxes are located in a control room that is adjacent to the elevator shaft on the highest landing and within around 150 feet of the machine.

Machine-room-less elevators have a maximum travel distance of up to 250 feet and can travel at speeds up to 500 feet-per-minute. MRL elevators are comparable to geared traction elevators in terms of initial and maintenance costs, but they have relatively low energy consumption compared to geared elevators.

Machine-room-less elevators are becoming the most popular choice for mid-rise buildings where the travel distance is up to 250 feet. They are energy efficient, require less space, and their operation and reliability are on par with gear-less traction elevators.

The main reason that MRL elevators have been adopted so slowly in the United States is because the building codes had provisions that didn't allow the motor to be within the hoistway. This is slowly being changed, but it is worth consulting with the local authorities before specifying an MRL elevator.

[h=2]CSI MasterFormat Divisions[/h]

 

[Sifu]

It is a hydraulic elevator. Just heard from the PM, said he spoke with elevator company and they said they never made such an assertion. PM doesn't know how or why the 1hr barrier requirement was lifted. I can find no exception that applies that would permit an unrated wall assembly. Some in the office claim that if the shaft is not required to be rated then the adjacent room need not be but I can not find that in the code. To me the shaft is to protect the building from the spread of fire and the room is to protect the equipment that is conveying the elevator and its occupants- two totally different reasons for requiring the ratings and thus the logic of not requiring a rated room if the shaft is not rated does not apply. PM said he ordered the rated door and wants to know if he needs a damper on the transfer grill.

 

[cda]

Not a rated door with a hole in it

The room is not conditioned ??

 

[Sifu]

Over-ridden by new boss. Hanging his hat on the fact that if the shaft is not required to be rated then the machine room not required to be rated. Not the way I read it but he put it in writing...so be it. Requesting a code opinion/technical opinion just for my own knowledge.

 

[Paul Sweet]

3006.4 Machine rooms and machinery spaces. Elevator machine rooms and machinery spaces shall be enclosed with fire barriers constructed in accordance with Section 707 or horizontal assemblies constructed in accordance with Section 712, or both. The fire-resistance rating shall not be less than the required rating of the hoistway enclosure served by the machinery. Openings in the fire barriers shall be protected with assemblies having a fire protection rating not less than that required for the hoistway enclosure doors.

I don't know why the shaft isn't required to be rated, but a 0-hour machine room would not be less than a 0-hour shaft.

 

[Sifu]

Not required to be rated per 708.2#7. I get the part about the room not allowed to be less than the shaft, and that is what some others are saying is the reason there is no rating on the room. I am not so sure. I wonder if that simply means that the machine room can not be reduced from 2 hr down to 1 hr by the exception if the shaft is not allowed that reduction. It may very well be that a 0 required rating on a shaft allows a 0 rating on the machine room but I don't see that the code spells it out very well. The PM, superintendent and even the architect all agree that the "saloon" door is no good and are putting in a rated door, not sure what they will do about the damper but since my boss has spoken its out of my hands. The rest is just for my own schoolin'. I will post the "official" ICC response when I get it.

 

[Sifu]

Update, from ICC

Q: If an elevator hoistway is not required to be rated, is the machine room required to be rated.

A: No, Section 3006.4 requires fire barriers, horizontal assemblies or both to separate the machine room from the rest of the building with a fire-resistance rating no less than the rating required for the hoistway. If the hoistway is not required to be rated, no fire-resistance rating is required for the machine room.

There I have it!

 

[steveray]

which state is this in??Is there any state oversight on elevators?

In our state the state also regulates elevators, and they do not like anything in their elevator rooms, plus one hour room.

Here...the State does the elevator and we get the shaft...

I have a hard time believing it meets #7....an elevator shaft that does not open to a corridor and is not concealed?

 

[north star]

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" ...and we get the shaft... "

Was that a Freudian slip, ...or are you stating literally ? :-D

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