Elevator requirement in IBC

[omahawildcat]

Is there any requirement in the IBC that 2 story buildings with 3000 sf or larger floor plates require an elevator? I cannot find anywhere that even says when an elevator is required other than section 1009.2.1 which calls for elevators to be used as accessible egress with exceptions on 4 story locations.

The ADA says that buildings with 3 or more floors but the floors are less than 3000sf do not need an elevator as long as the building is not one of the prescribed occupancy types.

 

[RLGA]

Refer to IBC Section 1104.4.

 

[omahawildcat]

Seriously, Damn ridiculous that the ADA code goes one way and the IBC goes another.

 

[rbk-ny]

Refer to IBC Section 1104.4.

Does 1104.4 exception 2 exempt floors from an accessible route if the floor does not contain elements of spaces per 1107 (dwelling units) or 1108 (assembly, self service storage, or judicial facilities)? If a floor does not have these elements, can it be any size and still not require an elevator?

 

[mtlogcabin]

At least the IBC is more restrictive with the term "aggregate". The ADA does not require an elevator no matter how tall the building is as long as each floor is less than 3,000 sq. ft.

ADA

• Exemptions: Elevators are not required in facilities under three stories or with fewer than 3000 square feet per floor, unless the building is a shopping center or mall; professional office of a health care provider; public transit station; or airport passenger terminal.

2018 IBC
1104.4 Multistory buildings and facilities.
At least one accessible route shall connect each accessible story, mezzanine and occupied roofs in multilevel buildings and facilities.

Exceptions:

1. An accessible route is not required to stories, mezzanines and occupied roofs that have an aggregate area of not more than 3,000 square feet (278.7 m2) and are located above and below accessible levels.

 

[RLGA]

Does 1104.4 exception 2 exempt floors from an accessible route if the floor does not contain elements of spaces per 1107 (dwelling units) or 1108 (assembly, self service storage, or judicial facilities)? If a floor does not have these elements, can it be any size and still not require an elevator?

No; if the building does not have accessible elements or spaces on stories with those uses, and the aggregate area of stories exceeds 3,000 sq. ft., then an accessible route (i.e., an elevator or ramp) is required to those stories unless Exceptions 3 or 4 apply.

 

[rktect 1]

Seriously, Damn ridiculous that the ADA code goes one way and the IBC goes another.

Last time I checked, the ADA was created prior to the IBC code. Seems like ICC needs to better coordinate this aspect.

 

[rbk-ny]

No; if the building does not have accessible elements or spaces on stories with those uses, and the aggregate area of stories exceeds 3,000 sq. ft., then an accessible route (i.e., an elevator or ramp) is required to those stories unless Exceptions 3 or 4 apply.

RLGA: thanks! But still not sure, then, what is the purpose of exception 2? If the 3000 sf limit applies it would be practically the same as exception 1?

 

[RLGA]

RLGA: thanks! But still not sure, then, what is the purpose of exception 2? If the 3000 sf limit applies it would be practically the same as exception 1?

Either I misunderstood your earlier comment, or you did not write the question as you intended.

Only one exception must be true to exempt an accessible route to multiple stories.

For example, if a building has a story with an aggregate area of 3,000 sq. ft. or less, and none of the five other conditions apply, no accessible route is required (Exception 1). If the story exceeds an aggregate area of 3,000 sq. ft. but includes dwelling or sleeping units, assembly seating, self-service storage facilities, or judicial facilities and contains no accessible elements as exempted by those applicable sections, then no accessible route is required (Exception 2).

Exception 2, although grammatically correct, could be rewritten to be less ambiguous.

 

[rbk-ny]

Either I misunderstood your earlier comment, or you did not write the question as you intended.

Only one exception must be true to exempt an accessible route to multiple stories.

For example, if a building has a story with an aggregate area of 3,000 sq. ft. or less, and none of the five other conditions apply, no accessible route is required (Exception 1). If the story exceeds an aggregate area of 3,000 sq. ft. but includes dwelling or sleeping units, assembly seating, self-service storage facilities, or judicial facilities and contains no accessible elements as exempted by those applicable sections, then no accessible route is required (Exception 2).

Exception 2, although grammatically correct, could be rewritten to be less ambiguous.

Ron: I did get caught up in the wording of exception 2...yes, a little ambiguous! But your last explanation cleared it up....thanks for your help!

 

[Hyrax4978]

I wanted to see if i could get a few more thoughts on this topic.... i was recently talking with another architect (NH) about an 11,000 SF second floor for a new design and they did not show an elevator. They said the owner didn't want one and "since its not required by code" they are not providing it. they are leaning on a IBC exclusion that does not apply, but as i am not the architect all i can do is speak my mind. I pushed back with ADA 2010 and his take on it was that its only two stories and ADA 2010 allows no elevators for buildings that are less than three stories. He said since it says "or" he an provide a two story building with no elevators. I went back to double check and its a little confusing with that or, almost as like one or the other applies to exempt you. Any thoughts.....


Exemptions:

1. In private buildings or facilities that are less than three stories or that have less than 3000 square feet (279 m2) per story, an accessible route shall not be required to connect stories provided that the building or facility is not a shopping center, a shopping mall, the professional office of a health care provider, a terminal, depot or other station used for specified public transportation, an airport passenger terminal, or another type of facility as determined by the Attorney General.

 

[steveray]

I wanted to see if i could get a few more thoughts on this topic.... i was recently talking with another architect (NH) about an 11,000 SF second floor for a new design and they did not show an elevator. They said the owner didn't want one and "since its not required by code" they are not providing it. they are leaning on a IBC exclusion that does not apply, but as i am not the architect all i can do is speak my mind. I pushed back with ADA 2010 and his take on it was that its only two stories and ADA 2010 allows no elevators for buildings that are less than three stories. He said since it says "or" he an provide a two story building with no elevators. I went back to double check and its a little confusing with that or, almost as like one or the other applies to exempt you. Any thoughts.....


Exemptions:

1. In private buildings or facilities that are less than three stories or that have less than 3000 square feet (279 m2) per story, an accessible route shall not be required to connect stories provided that the building or facility is not a shopping center, a shopping mall, the professional office of a health care provider, a terminal, depot or other station used for specified public transportation, an airport passenger terminal, or another type of facility as determined by the Attorney General.

Do they use the IBC and do they modify it?

 

[mtlogcabin]

No accessible route to the 2nd floor no permit from my office. ADA is not a concern nor a building code.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I wanted to see if i could get a few more thoughts on this topic.... i was recently talking with another architect (NH) about an 11,000 SF second floor for a new design and they did not show an elevator. They said the owner didn't want one and "since its not required by code" they are not providing it. they are leaning on a IBC exclusion that does not apply, but as i am not the architect all i can do is speak my mind. I pushed back with ADA 2010 and his take on it was that its only two stories and ADA 2010 allows no elevators for buildings that are less than three stories. He said since it says "or" he an provide a two story building with no elevators. I went back to double check and its a little confusing with that or, almost as like one or the other applies to exempt you. Any thoughts.....

From the New Hampshire building code (according to UpCodes):

1104.4 Multistory Buildings and Facilities​

At least one accessible route shall connect each accessible story, mezzanine and occupied roofs in multilevel buildings and facilities.
Exceptions:

1. An accessible route is not required to stories, mezzanines and occupied roofs that have an aggregate area of not more than 3,000 square feet (278.7 m2) and are located above and below accessible levels. This exception shall not apply to:
   1. Multiple tenant facilities of Group M occupancies containing five or more tenant spaces used for the sales or rental of goods and where at least one such tenant space is located on a floor level above or below the accessible levels.
   2. Stories or mezzanines containing offices of health care providers (Group B or I).
   3. Passenger transportation facilities and airports (Group A-3 or B).
   4. Government buildings.
   5. Structures with four or more dwelling units.
2. Stories, mezzanines or occupied roofs that do not contain accessible elements or other spaces as determined by Section 1108 or 1109 are not required to be served by an accessible route from an accessible level.
3. In air traffic control towers, an accessible route is not required to serve the cab and the floor immediately below the cab.
4. Where a two-story building or facility has one story or mezzanine with an occupant load of five or fewer persons that does not contain public use space, that story or mezzanine shall not be required to be connected by an accessible route to the story above or below.

Last I knew, 11,000 was greater than 3,000, so exception #1 does not apply. Exceptions #3 and #4 clearly don't apply.

For Exception #2, we have to look at IBC 1108 and 1109: 1108 is Dwelling units and sleeping units. 1109 is special occupancies, including assembly, courtrooms, self-storage facilities. Whether or not Exception #2 could apply depends on the use or uses on the second story.

In general, I can't imagine a new building with an 11,000 s.f. second floor that doesn't require an elevator.

 

[Hyrax4978]

I have not circled back to the 2021 ibc on that section, but i like how they now have the 3,000 sf listed in there. the 3k was not listed in the previous code. CT modified it, which helped, but im glad its in the base for 2021 now. thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Hyrax4978]

Some people just amaze me. the second floor of this building is racket ball. there are no fixed seating areas, this is not a spectator even place. just places to play the game, some toilet rooms and a couple stairs up there. He is now telling me he is leaning on item #2 of 1104.4......

Stories, mezzanines or occupied roofs that do not contain accessible elements or other spaces as determined by Section 1108 or 1109 are not required to be served by an accessible route from an accessible level.

his argument is that per 1109.2.1. if he has courts on the ground level that he doesn't need accessibility to the second floor. While i dont exactly agree that is the intent of 1109.2.1 im done arguing with this guy. I did just notice he does show turning circles in his toilet rooms on the second floor. LOL

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I did just notice he does show turning circles in his toilet rooms on the second floor.

The requirements for accessible toilet rooms have nothing to do with if the second floor needs an accessible route or not.

 

[Hyrax4978]

I don't have the book handy, but what's the point of a wheel chair turning radius if there is no requirement for wheel chair accessibility to a space

 

[walker.t]

what's the point of a wheel chair turning radius if there is no requirement for wheel chair accessibility to a space

FAQ from U.S. Access Board Technical Guide “Accessible Routes”
Do stories not required to be on an accessible route have to comply with the Standards?
Yes, stories (and mezzanines) not connected by an accessible route must still meet all other applicable requirements in the Standards. This ensures access for people with disabilities who can use stairs and facilitates compliance should vertical access be achieved through later renovations or additions.

Here’s a link to this technical guide, the page has a link at the top to let you download a PDF of the guide:

U.S. Access Board - Chapter 4: Accessible Routes

The U.S. Access Board is a federal agency that promotes equality for people with disabilities through leadership in accessible design and the development of accessibility guidelines and standards for the built environment, transportation, communication, medical diagnostic equipment, and...

www.access-board.gov

 

[Paul Sweet]

The IBC is tougher than ADA on a few items, especially stories requiring an accessible route.

 

[steveray]

The IBC is tougher than ADA on a few items, especially stories requiring an accessible route.

And private clubs...

 

[Joe.B]

Heeey, CA's pretty nice dude, come check it out, all good over here bro, honest, it's like, no sweat man