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Emergency Responder Radio Coverage

BayPointArchitect

BayPointArchitect

Sawhorse
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
516
Location
Lincoln
Given:
2018 IBC 918.1
Emergency responder radio coverage shall be provided in all new buildings in accordance with Section 510 of the International Fire Code.

As someone designing a building (not a high rise), or someone doing plan review, what criteria do you use to determine which (not all) buildings require a 3rd party analysis of the possibility that a fire fighter gets trapped somewhere inside a building and his/her radio can not penetrate the combination of concrete and glass. He or she calls for help but the radio signal would otherwise need to reach the outside recipient.

Does someone have some prescriptive list of buildings that pose a problem with regards to radio signals? How do I anticipate this as a potential cost?
 
BayPointArchitect said:
Given:
2018 IBC 918.1
Emergency responder radio coverage shall be provided in all new buildings in accordance with Section 510 of the International Fire Code.

As someone designing a building (not a high rise), or someone doing plan review, what criteria do you use to determine which (not all) buildings require a 3rd party analysis of the possibility that a fire fighter gets trapped somewhere inside a building and his/her radio can not penetrate the combination of concrete and glass. He or she calls for help but the radio signal would otherwise need to reach the outside recipient.

Does someone have some prescriptive list of buildings that pose a problem with regards to radio signals? How do I anticipate this as a potential cost?
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Well unless it is an underground or very thick concrete, or sound proofing , or ????

You do not know till it is built

We put the requirement there

Some budget on we may use it basis

Some pre wire just in case costs a little, but may be cheaper if needed

I would talk the the ahj and ask if they even have any systems in there city

If they do how many and what kinds of buildings

We have three so far with three more coming in line, mainly very thick exterior walls, but one is a band room with sound proofing/ noise deading or whatever they use

The rest of our 1-4 story buildings do not need a booster
 
Any building covered by the IBC has the potential for ERRC, the standard requires a grid test be done in the building and if less than 95% of the building has radio coverage equal to the exterior of the building the a system is required. We flag this for all IBC projects, you can not reliably test a building until all the equipment is installed in it. As side note Low-E glass is a killer of radio signals.

Once the testing is completed a system needs to be designed to comply with the ERRC requirements. Some project leverage Distributed Antenna System (DAS) that increase cell signal, and other in building radio systems
 
We would generally pre-wire college buildings for a DAS. It's nowhere as expensive to do it before the ceiling goes in. Amplifiers can be added after the building is completed, if they are also required.
 
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Paul Sweet said:
We would generally pre-wire college buildings for a DAS. It's nowhere as expensive to do it before the ceiling goes in. Amplifiers can be added after the building is completed, if they are also required.
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Also sometimes signals change. Have a fellow code cruncher in another city, that has signal strength go down, because a building is built next to it

another good reason to pre wire
 
Our thresholds for ERRC is 20,000 sq ft for metal buildings and 50,000 sq ft for wood. We want to see that the building is stocked. However, as stock changes frequently, I'm not sure you can properly take stock into consideration. Plus, once the building is stocked, they want to put it to use. If ERRC is required, we give them 30 to 60 days to complete the installation.
 
I think that the emergency responder radio coverage requirement applies to walkie-talkies used by firefighters on-site, and not for radio communications from off-site.
 
Our ERRC test is to ensure the emergency personal on-site can communicate with dispatch and other units.
 
Paul Sweet said:
I think that the emergency responder radio coverage requirement applies to walkie-talkies used by firefighters on-site, and not for radio communications from off-site.
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Your honor will you have the witness restate the answer.


Should be communication inside the building, communication from in the building to outside, and include getting to the dispatch center, and also, people outside communicating to people inside.

Some of the new buildings we have done lately, you cannot communicate room to room.
 
What happens when a new building nearby decreases the signal strength from dispatch to an existing building? Does the owner of the new building pay to install a DAS in the existing building, because his new building created a deficiency in the existing building? Is the existing building owner stuck with retrofitting his building to compensate for a problem caused by a later building? Or does the fire dept. find another way to communicate with HQ?
 
Paul Sweet said:
What happens when a new building nearby decreases the signal strength from dispatch to an existing building? Does the owner of the new building pay to install a DAS in the existing building, because his new building created a deficiency in the existing building? Is the existing building owner stuck with retrofitting his building to compensate for a problem caused by a later building? Or does the fire dept. find another way to communicate with HQ?
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I would say the owner of the effected building gets the bill.

Than they submit that to the lawyer.
 
There are not any off the shelf systems that will give you the coverage you needed, a reputably radio company can survey the building radio dramatics and sugget systems that are suitable for your need.
 
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