Equipment listing

[Chad Pasquini]

All, have a company coming into town, liquid firtalizer. They are from Holland and the equipment does not have a UL listing, would you all allow an electrical engineer sign off on it, or would you require them to have the equipment listed by an approved company? Thanks all

 

[Mark K]

Believe the code requires equipment compliant with standards. If they can show test report signed by a professional engineer that shows compliance I do not see qhat more is required.

What is the criteria for an approved listing company. Where is this listed in the code?

 

[cda]

All, have a company coming into town, liquid firtalizer. They are from Holland and the equipment does not have a UL listing, would you all allow an electrical engineer sign off on it, or would you require them to have the equipment listed by an approved company? Thanks all

Does it carry any listing at all?????

such as the fire marshal of holland, or some other europian testing lab???

 

[cda]

LISTED. Equipment, materials, products or services included in a list published by an organization acceptable to the code official and concerned with evaluation of products or services that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services and whose listing states either that the equipment, material, product or service meets identified standards or has been tested and found suitable for a specified purpose.

 

[ICE]

90.7 Examination of Equipment for Safety.For specific items of equipment and materials referred to

in this Code, examinations for safety made under standard

conditions provide a basis for approval where the record

is made generally available through promulgation by

organizations properly equipped and qualified for

experimental testing, inspections of the run of goods at

factories, and service-value determination through field

inspections. This avoids the necessity for repetition of

examinations by different examiners, frequently with

inadequate facilities for such work, and the confusion that

would result from conflicting reports on the suitability of

devices and materials examined for a given purpose.

It is the intent of this Code that factory-installed internal

wiring or the construction of equipment need not be

inspected at the time of installation of the equipment,

except to detect alterations or damage, if the equipment

has been listed by a qualified electrical testing laboratory

that is recognized as having the facilities described in the

preceding paragraph and that requires suitability for

installation in accordance with this Code.

A Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL) is required. OSHA is the organization that certifies companies such as UL, ETL, and TUV. There are others as well but only a select few are allowed to perform field evaluations.

Keep in mind that a listing is not an approval. The jurisdiction grants the approval. The determination can be based on a listing. I have have had to deny approval for listed products several times. I have also found deficiencies in field evaluated equipment.

 

[BSSTG]

Greetings,

What do you mean "equipment"? What I have seen in the past was process control equipment control panels containing PLC's, motor drives, fuses and the like were made in Europe. We never had an issue with the workings of the process panels per se but the individual components were in question sometime. This was about 30 years ago too. So maybe times have changed. I wasn't in control of that project either.

My employer a few years ago did manufacture custom light fixtures and chandeliers. This was in Houston. We hired, at great expense, UL to send a rep out and test the equipment for the needed listing which Houston inspectors required. No problem I understand. What was unsettling was this guy comes to the shop and I visited with him as he was doing his thing one day. All he did was give these fixtures a visual look over and then use a megohm meter to verify wiring insulation. I was not overly impressed. The bottom line was that it was ok per the inspector and we went on our merry way. That guy came in about once a month or so when needed by the way.

BSSTG

 

[zigmark]

"All he did was give these fixtures a visual look over and then use a megohm meter to verify wiring insulation."

That's "all" most building inspectors do daily when inspecting as well, minus the ohm meter. As with construction, equipment is impossible to inspect once completely assembled and improper assembly or material use for the application could result in unsafe or potentially life threatening results. While the inspections of your product may have seemed menial at the time, given the fact that their were no deficiencies, I'm sure it cold have gone much differently if the person was experienced and well trained to do his/her job.

We had a slightly different but similar issue here once with a recycled composite siding manufacturing line that was imported for use. It even had some other countries listing and installation information although it was all in German. The installers had the text all translated so us dumb inspectors could read it and they brought in people from the manufacturer to install it. Sadly, I don't think they ever produced enough product to side a shoebox because the production line continually caught fire. Luckily it never resulted in injury. Lost in translation? Section omitted to avoid cost? You tell me...

I've also been asked similar questions after writing up foundations poured without inspection... Question: "Hey, can we just have the Engineer sign off on the foundation and keep moving?" Reply: "Let me think about it.. NO".

Unless their Engineer has x-ray vision ask for the listing.

ZIG

 

[Chad Pasquini]

Thanks All, with the help from you all, i sent off the email letting then know the equipment will need a third party listing agency if it does not currently have a listing.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Is the liquid fertilizer a factor in what the listing should identify? Is it combustible? is the facility storage or dispensing? Will out gassing of combustible vapors occur near this equipment. Might want to get your fire marshal on board with the approval.

 

[Chad Pasquini]

Thanks mtlogcabin, the fire Marshall and prevention specialist are all on board, we have classified the building, and the quantitiy & types of liquid to be used, it is just there bottling equipment that most does not have a listing.

 

[Msradell]

I can tell you from my past experience that much industrial equipment does not have agency listings or certifications on them. Much of said equipment is custom-built one-of-a-kind or very limited production equipment that makes it not feasible to have listings for it. Obviously certain devices such as motors, controllers etc. in the assemblies will have listings by reputable agencies but the entire piece of equipment in most cases won't.

 

[JBI]

If the equipment is made up of listed components it is likely compliant without an overall listing for the final assembled equipment.

If I buy a listed light socket, listed wire and construct a lamp with a ceramic base made in a pottery class, could that lamp be used? Of course it can.

 

[BSSTG]

If the equipment is made up of listed components it is likely compliant without an overall listing for the final assembled equipment. If I buy a listed light socket, listed wire and construct a lamp with a ceramic base made in a pottery class, could that lamp be used? Of course it can.

Not necessarily. You have to look at the actual listing and make sure the connections, installation and so forth are compliant with the listing. Case in point. I recall a type of low voltage rope lighting we used in Houston. The debate came up about how electrical connections were to be made to the ends of the rope and clearances of the rope to combustibles and so forth. Bulbs were 20 watt halogen (12 volt) so they were very hot. Bottom line was I had to go back and find the UL file for the listing to see what conditions the light was tested under. In that case we were noncompliant with the listing and and had to change something. I don't recall exactly what it was as it was a few years back. Anyway, the reason it came up to begin with was because of an inspector questioning it. We had several other things that were questioned by inspectors with regard to electronic ballasts (miniature type) install and so forth.

BS

 

[ICE]

If the equipment is made up of listed components it is likely compliant without an overall listing for the final assembled equipment. If I buy a listed light socket, listed wire and construct a lamp with a ceramic base made in a pottery class, could that lamp be used? Of course it can.

I must disagree. Listed components do not render an assembly to be listed. And sure a homemade lamp can be used....it can't be duplicated and sold.

 

[MASSDRIVER]

Underwriters Laboratory is basically the Mob. I've seen them in action.

Brent.

 

[conarb]

About 35 years ago I'm finishing up a new home and the owner, as usual, has a moving van coming to move in on top of me on Christmas eve, I've got PG&E on standby to hook up gas and electric, a new inspector comes by and is walking the home with me while I've got a couple of carpenters and painters taking care of last minute details, we go into the kitchen (huge commercial type kitchen like a hotel) and he pulls out his screw driver and starts dropping the hinged lenses on the countertop lights while is is looking at me and talking, after he reaches the end and has a few dozen lenses hanging down he starts looking under there and tells me there are no UL labels, I look and see none either, but I get the name of the manufacturer in Ohio and call them, they are having their Christmas party and everyone who comes to the phone is drunk, I finally scream into the phone: "Is anybody there sober enough to answer a simple question?" A gal finally comes on the phone and says the UL Labels are right on the lenses, I say the inspector has everyone of them hanging down and there isn't a label on a damn one. She says the labels or on the surface of the lenses, tip the lenses back up, yep there they were, had the dumb inspector just looked he would have seen them. That was it, he immediately signs off the card and puts his release sticker on the service and I called PG&E telling them to get their trucks up the hill immediately, the moving vans or there and the owner wants to spend Christmas eve in the house.

 

[Chad Pasquini]

OK, can a company who is OSHA approved to be a third party listing agent for equipment, also install the necessary parts required to bring said equipment into compliance? would there be a conflict of interest? Thanks All

 

[cda]

Possibly

LISTED. Equipment, materials, products or services included in a list published by an organization acceptable to the code official and concerned with evaluation of products or services that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services and whose listing states either that the equipment, material, product or service meets identified standards or has been tested and found suitable for a specified purpose.