exempting ANSI 117.7

[brudgers]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

The weaker requirements in the A117.1????I suggest you look over the proposed ADA/ABA. The text is almost exactly the same as the 2003 A117.1. A117.1 has incorporated the more current thinking of the DoJ and Access Board (e.g. reach range, door approach, accessible egress). Bring your head out into the sunshine a bit more.

When you bring your head out, I suggest you read the original ADAAG.

The new one has a 1000 sf exception for employee work areas, doesn't require an accessible route in facilities that don't use "pedestrian paths" between buildings, etc.

The problem with the new ADAAG was that it was designed to turn A117.1 into Federal regulation, not to insure that accessibility was not diminished.

Of course the other problem is that it's now two "Icks" old, being based on IBC 2003.

 

[jar546]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

Does the "new" ADAAG have the vertical grab bar requirement in bathrooms that is required by ANSI 117.1? (lobbied by AARP)

Does the "new" ADAAG have the same clear space around a water closet as ANSI 117.1 for side transfer?

 

[brudgers]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

The idea of the new ADAAG was to turn the IBC 2003 and A117.1 into ADAAG.

In other words ADAAG was supposed to change to the building code.

The building code was to remain unmodified.

Of course since then, it's been modified twice.

Without the Federal rule making process.

 

[Plans Approver]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

Of course under ADAAG, any raised area under 3000 sf would typically be exempted.

Where in ADAAG is that? :?: :?: :?:

 

[Gene Boecker]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

Of course under ADAAG, any raised area under 3000 sf would typically be exempted.

Where in ADAAG is that? :?: :?: :?:

On behalf of Brudgers (what am I thinking?! :lol: ), look up ADAAG 4.1.3(5), exception #1.

 

[Plans Approver]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

On behalf of Brudgers (what am I thinking?! :lol: ), look up ADAAG 4.1.3(5), exception #1.

What are you thinking? :lol:

I wrote this in the ramp thread and will repeat in part here.

2. The exception in ADAAG does not require elevators to be installed to a story or stories above or below less than 3000 sf in buildings 3 stories or less (ADAAG 4.1.3(5)). It excepts elevators, but, does not except accessibility to those stories as stated further in ADAAG 4.1.3(5) "The elevator exemption set forth in this paragraph does not obviate or limit in any way the obligation to comply with the other accessibility requirements established in section 4.1.3. For example, floors above or below the accessible ground floor must meet the requirements of this section except for elevator service.".

 

[brudgers]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

What are you thinking? :lol: I wrote this in the ramp thread and will repeat in part here.

2. The exception in ADAAG does not require elevators to be installed to a story or stories above or below less than 3000 sf in buildings 3 stories or less (ADAAG 4.1.3(5)). It excepts elevators, but, does not except accessibility to those stories as stated further in ADAAG 4.1.3(5) "The elevator exemption set forth in this paragraph does not obviate or limit in any way the obligation to comply with the other accessibility requirements established in section 4.1.3. For example, floors above or below the accessible ground floor must meet the requirements of this section except for elevator service.".

What that means is that you still have to make the toilet rooms, doors, etc. accessible.

In other words, just because you get a pass on the elevator it doesn't mean you get a pass on anything else.

 

[JBI]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

When the man is right, he's right... ouch, that hurt. :lol:

The underlying philosophy is that eventually the accessible route will be provided to the accessible elements.

 

[Plans Approver]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

What that means is that you still have to make the toilet rooms, doors, etc. accessible.In other words, just because you get a pass on the elevator it doesn't mean you get a pass on anything else.

That seems to be very different from:

Of course under ADAAG, any raised area under 3000 sf would typically be exempted.

 

[TJacobs]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

What that means is that you still have to make the toilet rooms, doors, etc. accessible.In other words, just because you get a pass on the elevator it doesn't mean you get a pass on anything else.

That seems to be very different from:

Of course under ADAAG, any raised area under 3000 sf would typically be exempted.

“I know that you believe you understand what you think brudgers said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what brudgers meant.” (Robert McCloskey)

 

[JBI]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

Good point Jake. What brudgers was saying is that you need not provide access to the 'platform' at this time, however any features located upon the platform still need to comply.

That feathers in with the point I made about 'eventually' having an accessible route to the platform.

 

[Plans Approver]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

Good point Jake. What brudgers was saying is that you need not provide access to the 'platform' at this time, however any features located upon the platform still need to comply. That feathers in with the point I made about 'eventually' having an accessible route to the platform.

I will make my last point on this thread (hold the cheers to a faint murmur).

If you have accessible elements, they need to be on an accessible route (1104.3). By definition, "ACCESSIBLE MEANS OF EGRESS. A continuous and unobstructed way of egress travel from any accessible point in a building or facility to a public way."

The accessible means of egress provides the accessible route and the access to the element.

I don't understand why accessible features would placed on a level that is not accessible. :?:

 

[Gene Boecker]

Re: exempting ANSI 117.7

Dan, I concur.

Besides, the whole point was that access IS provided by something that needed to be either a ramp or something else. And I think we agree that it's in the something else (aka sloped floor) category.

Have a great weekend folks!