Existing Football field

[thisonelife]

If this isn't a stumper! I have an existing football field with bleachers for 2975 people. The field is used for PE as well as track meets and football games after school hours. The facility is located across the street from the high school and is within 500 ' of the restrooms in the gym.

The owner would like a new field house that includes locker rooms, coaches offices, official's locker rooms and concessions. The facility does not currently have restrooms, the school brings in portable toilets for big events. The AHJ is saying that we need to have restrooms for the spectators but cannot tell me the code under which this is true, remember that there are no existing restrooms. The question is what is the code that says that I have to provide fixtures for the spectators in an existing facility that does not have restrooms and the project scope does not include spectator restrooms.

 

[steveray]

[P] 2902.1 Minimum number of fixtures. Plumbing fixtures
shall be provided for the type of occupancy and in the minimum
number shown in Table 2902.1.

So let me get this straight...You are going to add food and drink, but don't want to give them bathrooms? Is that the gist of it?

 

[fatboy]

We had the same situation presented to us, and we fell back on 2902.3.2, that allows facilities to be within 500', which you correctly cited. They also were bringing in porti's as supplemental facilities.

Bases covered.

Good luck.

BTW......Welcome!

 

[steveray]

I do agree with FB to an extent, but it is the AHJ's call (to some extent) that the existing fixtures are adequate....

 

[CityKin]

If you were building new/more bleachers I would require toilets to be provided, and neither port-o-let nor crossing a street would be acceptable IMO.

Since the field and bleachers are existing, thus you are not increasing the occupant load, I'm not sure I would require the toilets, but I believe this is a judgement to be made by the AHJ

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Assuming for NM: https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/collections/new mexico



2015 IEBC
1101.1 Scope. An addition to a building or structure shall comply with the International Codes as adopted for new construction without requiring the existing building or structure to comply with any requirements of those codes or of these provisions, except as required by this chapter. Where an addition impacts the existing building or structure, that portion shall comply with this code.

1101.2 Creation or extension of nonconformity. An addition shall not create or extend any nonconformity in the existing building to which the addition is being made with regard to accessibility, structural strength, fire safety, means of egress, or the capacity of mechanical, plumbing, or electrical systems.

 

[SCBO1]

I always have to go at halftime! How bout you? And those little white things are not mints!

 

[classicT]

Different thought than those above....

The new building would absolutely be required to have restrooms in accordance with 2902.1, however the restrooms would only be calculated upon the occupancy of the new structure (the field house). This would substantially decrease the number of facilities required - most likely a single men's and women's stall required.These facilities would be required to comply with ADA/A117.1 as well.

Being that the existing facility (the stadium) is not being changed, it is not required to be brought up to code. If the stadium seats (an assembly area) were altered during the construction of the new structure (the field house), the AHJ may require that the stadium facilities be brought up to code.

I would speak with the AHJ and explain that the existing facility is not being modified and that the intent is to add a separate building that will comply with current code.

 

[ICE]

The owner would like a new field house that includes locker rooms, coaches offices, official's locker rooms and concessions.

There is no suggestion that toilets are not needed. The argument to deny the need is what? The code doesn't require toilets.....and that's why they rent them. I have used hundreds of blue rooms......some were green. On a job site they work well enough. At a field of dreams they are a rude excuse for a lack of manners.

2975 people in the bleachers and another hundred players, coaches and cheerleaders. Well if a 1000 fans showed up, 350 of them used a porta-potti. Then they hit the concession stand with their $20 for a footlong and fatboy's favorite, Cheetos.

The first thing his wife says when they get home, "Take off those shoes and wash your hands".

I guess I don't like crowds any more than the owner does.

 

[north star]

@ ~ @

Here, here now !.........Where are our manners ?
This is **thisonelife**'s 1st visit to our Forum.
Shirley we can extend a civil greeting to him \ her.

Welcome **thisonelife** to The Building Codes Forum !

Question # 1: Regarding the existing number of plbg.
fixtures within' the 500 ft. distance across the street,
are there a code compliant number of fixtures for the
rest of the school; as well as, the stadium occupants ?

Question # 2: Are the coaches, staff, other occupants
part of the 2,975 number, or is this number the
calculated number in the bleachers only ?

Question # 3: Which Codes & edition are you using ?

Question # 4: Does this also include the Existing
Building Code, something else, or nothing adopted ?

Thanks for coming here to ask your questions !

@ ~ @

 

[fatboy]

I welcomed him!

 

[tmurray]

Question # 1: Regarding the existing number of plbg.
fixtures within' the 500 ft. distance across the street,
are there a code compliant number of fixtures for the
rest of the school; as well as, the stadium occupants ?

Sounds like there will only be events after school hours.

I'm in agreement with Ty J. They can make you add new restrooms for the new building, but that's it.

 

[steveray]

Sounds like a partial COU from A5 to A2......

1010.1 Increased demand. Where the occupancy of an existing
building or part of an existing building is changed such
that the new occupancy is subject to increased or different
plumbing fixture requirements or to increased water supply
requirements in accordance with the International Plumbing
Code, the new occupancy shall comply with the intent of the
respective International Plumbing Code provisions.

 

[my250r11]

NM Codes;

2015 IBC, IRC, IEBC with Amendments
2012 UPC, UMC with amendments
2009 NM Energy Conservation Code
2014 NEC with amendments

IMHO the new facility has to have restrooms. It is up to the AHJ as whether or not to consider it a change of use to add for the spectators. Having them will only help the owner & spectators.

 

[VillageInspector]

Am I the only one who is curious why he is referencing the IEBC for the construction of a NEW field house? Or am I missing something, ..which is very possible, after all it is Monday morning.

 

[steveray]

Existing "facility".....Not saying it is right, but it might be where the AHJ is coming from...

 

[VillageInspector]

Existing "facility".....Not saying it is right, but it might be where the AHJ is coming from...

I understand that the football field is existing however you stated "The owner would like a new field house" which led to my comment

 

[JBI]

The IEBC does have sections specific to additions, which would explain the reference to it.
Basically the addition itself must meet new Code and the impacts on the 'existing' building/structure need to be evaluated. That would include all systems that might be impacted, including plumbing systems.

Anyone else feel there's something missing here? OL just under 3 thousand and they're balking at toilet facilities?

 

[north star]

& * & * &

Yes **JBI**, ...there is more information needed for us to
continue to vette this topic.

**thisonelife** has not been back to continue the discussion.

& * & * &

 

[Builder Bob]

It may be the fact that the 500 feet travel distance is acceptable only as long as people are allowed to wander and enter the existing school..... I am willing to bet that on a Friday night, these doors are locked and the 500 feet rule for restrooms now becomes 5000 feet or else they would have never brought port o johns in the first place. (And BTW, Football stands and bleaches are an A-5 classification. - this has nothing to do with the new field house proposal)

 

[steveray]

With field house I agree....Once they add the concessions is where there is a bit of a sticking point with me, now it is food and drink consumption for thousands of people with marginal bathrooms. Again the AHJ is the one that will make that call...

 

[HForester]

Builder Bob is hitting the nail on the head. Also, I don't like the fact that people have to go across a street....if it is a public way, then there would be great concern about safety, especially at night. No, I don't think the CO can make them build toilet facilities to serve the stands...but yes for serving the occupancy of the new structures. I think that porta potties would still be needed to serve the stands (if the new toilet facilities are not in sufficient quantity)

 

[ADAguy]

Health, safety and barriers to access, each a separate consideration. ADA has a retroactive requirement to provide RR's but no guidelines as to how many or how far away. Comes down to common sense and best practice. Wait till they get sued by some incontinent elder who soils themselves.