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Existing Vacant Building

G

globe trekker

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Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
1,739
Greetings to all!

I have an existing vacant building (approx. 2,000 sq. ft), that was last occupied

as a video rental store (Type M occ. group - the whole bldg.).

The business went "out-of-business" a few years ago and the building has been

sitting vacant. Some minor exterior renovations were performed about 1.5 yrs.

ago to improve the appearance (no Accessibility upgrades of any kind).

The owner now wants to create a smaller office space (approx. 600. sq ft.) in

this existing bldg. to rent out, and install a new unisex, ADA compliant restroom.

None of the rest of the building will be altered. The part being altered is above

grade and has a set of steps (with handrails) to it.

What Accessibility requirements are there, if any, since they are not altering

any other aspect of the bldg. or site?

As always, "much thanks" for your input! :)

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Have them submit a proposal by a licensed professional which identifies what they believe is required under all ADA and accessibility codes in effect in your jurisdiction. Then you can review and approve or not, as it makes sense to you. Don't be their designer. Just don't.
 
Have them submit a proposal by a licensed professional which identifies what they believeis required under all ADA and accessibility codes in effect in your jurisdiction. Then you can review

and approve or not, as it makes sense to you. Don't be their designer. Just don't.
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Can't, ..not politically correct! I've already been given my marching orders (so-to-speak).

I am trying to make a silk purse out of a cow's ear.

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Is the stair inside or outside the building? "Steps" is not a term used in the codes.
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Outside! It will be the only way in to the new tenant space they want to create, on

that side of the existing building.

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Do they desire to renovation the bathroom regardless of any accessibility issues?

They need to start looking at the accessibility issues from the outside in, parking first, accessible route next, entry to the building next, , , then navigating the inside and the bathroom.

If they are ripping out and renovating the bathroom anyway, it must meet accessibility regardless of whatever else is required.

It is a change of use, , , so you have that to stand on for scope.

Still my first answer stands (although I DO UNDERSTAND!) let your bosses know that they will be on the lawsuit train if a single citizen is unhappy with the scope of approval.
 
Yankee (and others),

Currently, there is no restroom on that side of the building. They will be constructing

a brand new unisex, Accessible restroom for a (approx.) 600 sq. ft. office area and

install a tenant separation wall from the rest of the building. The rest of the building

is vacant and they really need to get a tenant in to it to prevent vandalism &

further deterioration of the property.

Not a good situation all around! I'm pretty sure that the building owner does not

want to spend a lot of money on the rest of the property, especially since, nothing

else is being altered, ..which is why I came on the Forum to get some valuable input.

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globe trekker said:
Outside! It will be the only way in to the new tenant space they want to create, on that side of the existing building.
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Is the area being altered currently accessible? If so then the new configuration cannot make it less accessible.
 
3409.7

IMHO, Use the total cost of renovations including the cost of the new bathroom (which has to be accessible like "new"). They must spend 20% of that amount on the accessible/route entrance. You will need to determine what part of the accessible route/entrance makes most sense given the amount of money they must invest and what you have to start with, site plan-wise.
 
Is the area being altered currently accessible? If so then the new configuration cannot makeit less accessible.
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No! Nothing on the site is Accessible (parking, Accessible route, signage, etc., etc.)

Yankee,

Your listed code section is kinda where I was headed in my thinking. I have to discuss

this with the BO to get on the same page, and then pitch it all to the building owner.

The 20% amount seems to be the best fit, IMO!

Others.. ?

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Two thoughts here.

One, the accessible route doesn't have to be imediate. IF there are existing site constraints, such as a dramatic topgraphical change. It may force other solutions to ultimately sovle the problem. Considering the facility is being planned as multi tenant. It may be prudent to develop a master plan to determine how to eventually solve this issue. (one though it s rampe around sidewalk with a dry stacked retaining wall getting you to a point to connect into accessible route (parking, sidewalks, etc.)

Meanwhile, do understand that stairs can be accessible, in a way.

Given the budget available, etc, it may be a good idea (hopefully understood by fed tort attorneys), to approach this in this way.
 
pwood said:
he is already spending 100% of the job cost on ada upgrades!
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The cost of the new bathroom, because it is being put in primarily for general use and NOT for accessibility compliance, cannot qualify as money spent towards the 20%. What he is building is not an accessibility upgrade, but a new bathroom. Yes it is required to be accessible, but it is not an upgrade. The code and commentary is very clear on this. You can consider a chair-lift perhaps. That would not be very constrained per site assessment.
 
Now if you call this a change of occupancy M to B use then all the following improvements need to be made at this time

3409.4 Change of occupancy.

Existing buildings, or portions thereof, that undergo a change of group or occupancy shall have all of the following accessible features:

1. At least one accessible building entrance.

2. At least one accessible route from an accessible building entrance to primary function areas.

3. Signage complying with Section 1110.

4. Accessible parking, where parking is being provided.

5. At least one accessible passenger loading zone, when loading zones are provided.

6. At least one accessible route connecting accessible parking and accessible passenger loading zones to an accessible entrance.

If you don't call it a change of use, a rental store is not sales as described in an M occupancy, Then the following is how I would handle it.

pwood said:
he is already spending 100% of the job cost on ada upgrades!
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Deduct 100% of the cost of ADA restroom from the rest of the project (tenant separation wall and other improvements) apply the 20% rule to what is left. Then start with the parking lot and an accessible route into that space. If there is not enough left to make improvements to the parking and accessible route then spend it on doorknobs and other items.

Above all do not let them think that they will never have to make additional improvements for accessibility over the years. They should have a written plan describing what improvements need to be done and a time frame for completing them.

It is a tough call in this economy in certain parts of the country to require all the upgrades but as others have pointed out and I believe the responsibility lies is with the building owner more so than the business owner. He should have been gradually making the ADA improvements over the years
 
Thanks to all for your input! Ya'll confirmed what I was thinking also!

A written plan for Accessibility, for the entire property, in a timely fashion

is a very good idea. I plan to brief the property owner on general plan

requirements for this new tenant space and the 20% upgrade everywhere

else.

This Forum is waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy cool!

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Join today!! :)

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3409.7 exception 1.

20% of the project cost (as I described it in the previous post) to prepare the accessible route.
 
mtlogcabin said:
Deduct 100% of the cost of ADA restroom from the rest of the project (tenant separation wall and other improvements) apply the 20% rule to what is left. Then start with the parking lot and an accessible route into that space. If there is not enough left to make improvements to the parking and accessible route then spend it on doorknobs and other items.Above all do not let them think that they will never have to make additional improvements for accessibility over the years. They should have a written plan describing what improvements need to be done and a time frame for completing them.

It is a tough call in this economy in certain parts of the country to require all the upgrades but as others have pointed out and I believe the responsibility lies is with the building owner more so than the business owner. He should have been gradually making the ADA improvements over the years
Click to expand...
The cost of the bathroom cannot be included as money spent on accessibility but is part of the total project cost of which 20% must be spent on accessibility! As mentioned earlier the bathroom is not being upgraded but rather is new construction so it must be accessible no matter what. Just 20% of the bathroom cost should be sufficient to get a accessible entrance into the building built!
 
3411.7 exception 4

4. This provision does not apply to alterations undertaken for the primary purpose of increasing the accessibility of an existing building, facility or element.

That is why I allow the cost of the restroom to be deducted from the project when trying to come up with a 20% number.
 
mtlogcabin said:
3411.7 exception 44. This provision does not apply to alterations undertaken for the primary purpose of increasing the accessibility of an existing building, facility or element.

That is why I allow the cost of the restroom to be deducted from the project when trying to come up with a 20% number.
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Providing a new bathroom for use in a business where a bathroom did not exist before is not providing a bathroom for the primary purpose of increasing accessibility. If they were upgrading an existing functioning bathroom to ADA then it would qualify.
 
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