Exit discharge through open, but covered, parking lot

[cda]

In addition to the analysis by RLGA, there is another way to think about it. "A covered parking lot which is open on three sides" = an S-2 open parking garage

Restate the question like this: "Can a means of egress for an apartment building discharge into a parking garage?" Now I'm picturing residents exiting from their dwelling units, through a corridor, down a 2-hour stairwell, and into a garage where multiple cars are on fire, and intuitively I'm getting nervous.

That said, it is possible that with just one stairway is going into the garage, it might qualify as a type of "horizontal exit" per 1026. You would need an area of refuge equivalent to the total occupants served by the staircase, but that's probably achievable within the drive aisles of the garage.

The part that makes me nervous is a bunch of people rushing down this stair, they get to the ground level door, sense the fire on the other side, and now they have to go back upstairs (against all the other people pushing behind them) to find the other exits.

Not much fire


http://abc7.com/news/disneyland-parking-garage-fire-damages-9-cars/1753131/


http://www.ktnv.com/news/fire-in-downtown-las-vegas-parking-garage

 

[RLGA]

According to the U.S. Fire Administration, there is in average of 377,108 fires annually in residential buildings. For detached parking garages (they don't have a category for parking garages within another building use, but I assume it would be similar) the average number of fires annually is 4,425. Fires do start in parking garages, but I'd rather place my chances within a parking garage than within the residential floors.

 

[cda]

Now picture this, occupants exiting their spaces, through a corridor, down a 2-hour stairwell, and into a lobby that is on fire -- similar scenario; however, this same egress condition exists in many residential and office buildings.

Parking structures have an inherently good track record regarding fire events (i.e., they catch fire very rarely). Since a lobby is enclosed, smoke can be trapped within the space. On the other hand, in an open parking garage (assuming the openings meet the required areas) the accumulation of smoke will likely be less of an issue than within an enclosed lobby.

But in """ new construction """",

"""" Now picture this, occupants exiting their spaces, through a corridor, down a 2-hour stairwell, and into a lobby that is on fire -- similar scenario; however, this same egress condition exists in many residential and office buildings.""""

I thought that the lobby had to be two hour rated also????

Yes if it is on fire it is on fire, than you get into stairway reentry, plus you know the lobby is sprinkled for sure, with normally more than one way out.

 

[cda]

Ouch, serious concerns and possibilities but shouldn't fire sprinklers control the fire in a garage, unless an EQ has disabled them.

If the garage is sprinkled, guess Disney and the other one were not

 

[RLGA]

But in """ new construction """",

"""" Now picture this, occupants exiting their spaces, through a corridor, down a 2-hour stairwell, and into a lobby that is on fire -- similar scenario; however, this same egress condition exists in many residential and office buildings.""""

I thought that the lobby had to be two hour rated also????

Yes if it is on fire it is on fire, than you get into stairway reentry, plus you know the lobby is sprinkled for sure, with normally more than one way out.

Nope, lobbies only have to meet the same three conditions that I mentioned above. I'm not sure I understand your last sentence...

 

[ADAguy]

He is referring to recent Disney garage fire in Anahiem.

 

[cda]

Nope, lobbies only have to meet the same three conditions that I mentioned above. I'm not sure I understand your last sentence...

Just saying if you open the stairwell door on 1st floor, more than likely would go back up and try to renter 2nd floor and find a different way out.

So where does this requirement end???;;;



Found corridor continuity
1020.6 IBC 2015


I thought I was thaught that say the stairwell is 2 hr and dumps into say first floor corridor.
That first floor corridor has to be 2 hr or at least 1 hr

 

[RLGA]

Just saying if you open the stairwell door on 1st floor, more than likely would go back up and try to renter 2nd floor and find a different way out.

So where does this requirement end???;;;

They could do the same if the stairway exits into the garage.

Found corridor continuity
1020.6 IBC 2015


I thought I was thaught that say the stairwell is 2 hr and dumps into say first floor corridor.
That first floor corridor has to be 2 hr or at least 1 hr

Corridors are required to terminate at an exit, but could egress into a lobby. If a stairway cannot reach an exterior exit door (and is not eligible for the exception discussed in this thread), then an exit passageway can extend the stairway enclosure (Exception to Section 1022.3, 2012 IBC). An exit passageway is required to be 1-hour-rated, but if it extends a 2-hour-rated stair enclosure, then the exit passageway must be 2-hour-rated.

 

[Sifu]

Reviving this with a twist.

This is an existing building, proposing an interior remodel without changes to the exiting. From what I can tell, the second exit from the space goes through the exit enclosure at the stairs, then out to the parking garage, then back into the building across the fire separation and then out the main exit. I can't seem to find any other exit discharge locations. The parking garage vehicle access openings are enclosed by roll up security grills. Can't figure out how this was approved. I can see how the exit discharge through the garage may have been permitted, but not with the gates. Maybe the gates were added later, and either missed or unpermitted? Am I missing something?

 

[Sifu]

Sorry, should have included that this is a two-story multi-tenant building. 1/2 the main floor as S-2, the entire second floor is B. Apears to be ok as separated mixed use and assume it is fully sprinklered. Also, would this not exceed the 50% limitation for exit discharge to other than the exterior (2018 IBC 1028)? So even if a side hinged door was installed in the garage, it is questionable.

This brings up a debate I have faced many times and I am still conflicted by. If this existing building is not compliant, and never was (19 years old), yet the alterations do not included these issues, does the IEBC excuse it? Both prescriptive and work area methods specify that the alterations must comply, not the unaltered portions.