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Exit Passageway or Exit Stair Enclosure?

T-Bird

T-Bird

Registered User
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
95
Location
Seattle
This exit stair serves 3 stories of stacked flats and the basement garage structure. It is located in an R-2 non-separated Type V-A building.

Plan reviews says the small space adjacent to the exit stair is an exit passageway, and wants a wall and doorway introduced.

I have detailed it as part of the exit stair enclosure with 2 hour walls/floor/roof.

When can a space be considered part of an exit enclosure and when is it an exit passageway? I've seen spaces like this before without intervening walls or doors.

(I want to post a pdf image but I get a message that I'm not allowed?)
 
This exit stair serves 3 stories of stacked flats and the basement garage structure. It is located in an R-2 non-separated Type V-A building.Plan reviews says the small space adjacent to the exit stair is an exit passageway, and wants a wall and doorway introduced.

I have detailed it as part of the exit stair enclosure with 2 hour walls/floor/roof.

When can a space be considered part of an exit enclosure and when is it an exit passageway? I've seen spaces like this before without intervening walls or doors.

(I want to post a pdf image but I get a message that I'm not allowed?)
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Need to be a sawhorse to post

Cheap and keeps the forum going!!!!!!
 
I guess it is a matter of interpretation, but if there are no other openings into the "extension," then I don't see why it matters if there is separation or not. This brings up the question: What code edition is applicable? If not the 2015 IBC, then I suggest maybe asking for a code modification utilizing Exception 2 to Section 1023.3.1, which allows the elimination of the doorway between a vertical exit enclosure and an exit passageway. This was added in the 2015 IBC.
 
Yes, it is two hour enclosure top to bottom. The 2012 code is governing. The exit discharge is at the lowest level, but at the bottom flight I need to turn right, then turn right again to get to the exterior wall, so on this lower level it almost looks like there is a short hall on one side of the stair that extends about six feet from the landing to the exit door.
 
What is the safety benefit of providing a wall and door at this location?
 
2015

1023.3.1 Extension.

Where interior exit stairways and ramps are extended to an exit discharge or a public way by an exit passageway, the interior exit stairway and ramp shall be separated from the exit passageway by a fire barrier constructed in accordance with Section 707 or a horizontal assembly constructed in accordance with Section 711, or both. The fire-resistance rating shall be not less than that required for the interior exit stairway and ramp. A fire door assembly complying with Section 716.5 shall be installed in the fire barrier to provide a means of egress from the interior exit stairway and ramp to the exit passageway. Openings in the fire barrier other than the fire door assembly are prohibited. Penetrations of the fire barrier are prohibited.

Exceptions:

1. Penetrations of the fire barrier in accordance with Section 1023.5 shall be permitted.

2. Separation between an interior exit stairway or ramp and the exit passageway extension shall not be required where there are no openings into the exit passageway extension.
 
Yes' date=' it is two hour enclosure top to bottom. The 2012 code is governing. The exit discharge is at the lowest level, but at the bottom flight I need to turn right, then turn right again to get to the exterior wall, so on this lower level it almost looks like there is a short hall on one side of the stair that extends about six feet from the landing to the exit door.[/quote']I kind of do not understand if it is a rated stairwell, as long as it dumbs to the exterior, and is rated all the way down two hours,

What am I missing ??
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2015

An exit stairway does not require a door at the stairway opening into an exit passageway if the exit passageway has no other openings into it from the building.
 
This is a 2 hour rated stair enclosure, the reviewing jurisdiction requires an alternate method application to use the 2015 IBC 1023.3.1 Exception.

I had hoped to gain some understanding of when is Exit Passageway required and what defines an Exit Passageway vs. Interior Exit Stairway.

For instance, if my stair landing extended 36 inches beyond the sidewall of the stairway is that part of the stairway or is it an Exit Passageway?

What if it extended 12 inches? Or 12 feet? When is it not part of the Exit Enclosure?

With the new 2015 code exception I guess its not important anymore.
 
The basis understanding for an exit passageway is a horizontal shaft enclosure.It still has to meet the same requirements as a vertical stair shaft, be limited in use (egress only generally), and not have any penetrations other than what serve the passageway (same as a stair). the supporting construction has to be protected from fire the same as the stair shaft construction.

This is a very simplistic explanation but seems to work the best when talking - stair enclosure and exit passageway.
 
This is a 2 hour rated stair enclosure, the reviewing jurisdiction requires an alternate method application to use the 2015 IBC 1023.3.1 Exception.I had hoped to gain some understanding of when is Exit Passageway required and what defines an Exit Passageway vs. Interior Exit Stairway.

For instance, if my stair landing extended 36 inches beyond the sidewall of the stairway is that part of the stairway or is it an Exit Passageway?

What if it extended 12 inches? Or 12 feet? When is it not part of the Exit Enclosure?

With the new 2015 code exception I guess its not important anymore.
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Pay the dues for sawhorse, so you can post a detail of this.

The other way is to appeal to supervisor or go through appeals process.

Or try the alternative application process
 
This is a 2 hour rated stair enclosure, the reviewing jurisdiction requires an alternate method application to use the 2015 IBC 1023.3.1 Exception.I had hoped to gain some understanding of when is Exit Passageway required and what defines an Exit Passageway vs. Interior Exit Stairway.

For instance, if my stair landing extended 36 inches beyond the sidewall of the stairway is that part of the stairway or is it an Exit Passageway?

What if it extended 12 inches? Or 12 feet? When is it not part of the Exit Enclosure?

With the new 2015 code exception I guess its not important anymore.
Click to expand...
SO, how does your set up not meet this:::

"Interior exit stairways shall lead directly to the exterior of the building"""". ???
 
EXIT PASSAGEWAY. An exit component that is separated from other interior spaces of a building or structure by fire-resistance-rated construction and opening protectives, and provides for a protected path of egress travel in a horizontal direction to an exit or to the exit discharge.

INTERIOR EXIT STAIRWAY. An exit component that serves to meet one or more means of egress design requirements, such as required number of exits or exit access travel distance, and provides for a protected path of egress travel to the exit discharge or public way.

I would completely agree with cda that the short wall serves no purpose because you are already within a protected exit access way. They are basically one in the same just one is vertical and one horizontal. Describe the space at the bottom of the stairs as a large landing for the stairway.

ZIG
 
I've become a sawhorse and hope I can contribute to this community.
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Yay I recruited another!!!,,, five more and I get a waffle iron to match my toaster
 
I think what Tbird is saying is when does a reaaaaallly long landing become a passageway?...I have struggled with this in the past and Thank Ron for mentioning the 2015 change! I do not really like that it seems like we are doing alot of things to make our stairs less safe IMO, but we will see how that goes...
 
I think what Tbird is saying is when does a reaaaaallly long landing become a passageway?...I have struggled with this in the past and Thank Ron for mentioning the 2015 change! I do not really like that it seems like we are doing alot of things to make our stairs less safe IMO' date=' but we will see how that goes...[/quote']If the stair enclosure and the chute is say one or two hour rated,,

How is that making the stairs less safe
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I think what Tbird is saying is when does a reaaaaallly long landing become a passageway?...I have struggled with this in the past and Thank Ron for mentioning the 2015 change! I do not really like that it seems like we are doing alot of things to make our stairs less safe IMO' date=' but we will see how that goes...[/quote']Or;;; how does this specific design

does not meet this:::

"Interior exit stairways shall lead directly to the exterior of the building"""". ???
Click to expand...
 
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