Exit sign placement

[Big Mac]

Why not put one large TV in the middle and then the exit signs can be placed over the doors. Is that too easy?

 

[north star]

= = =

How much tv / visual stimulation in this Bar setting, do the

patrons need?......Agree with Big Mac, if these 2 glass doors

aren't a required MOE, then no Exit signs are required, ...however,

human nature being what it is [ and in agreement with Builder

Bob ], there IS already a certain higher level of "thought

conditioning" already at work, albeit subliminally, in a persons

mind, to walk towards a Exit sign.....Typically, that means

being installed centered over the door........Install compliant

Exit signs at the required MOE and let the others alone.

If patrons walk into them, that's on the owner.......I'm sure

that he will figure it out.

= = =

 

[Coug Dad]

= = =How much tv / visual stimulation in this Bar setting, do the

patrons need?......= = =

This thread seems to be veering from what is required by code to what someone might think is a good idea. As pointed out in my earlier post, exit signs are not required on main exterior doors per Section 1011.1 exception 2.

 

[gbhammer]

We all (well many of us) have made calls on what we feel is right, even though it is not that clear (hence commentary) that the code backs our position.

Out of all of the ICC books it seems as though the FCO has the most latitude when it comes to approving certain life safety issues and from time to time that appearance of "free range power" can go to the head of even the best intentioned person.

Hope no one takes this statement as a challenge to their authority, because it is not meant to be a blanket statement, nor as an incitement against the FCO's out there.

 

[miguele3]

when the fire alarm goes off they can have the tv's flash "EXIT"!!!!

Excellent!

 

[chris kennedy]

You have not stated whether the occupant load is such that two exits are required. If two exits are required, it seems unlikely that the separation between these pairs of doors is adequate to satisfy code requirements.

A-2 assembly 108 souls there, 4 in kitchen/office. Type V-A construction, egress per FBC T1005.1 is 112 souls @ .2"/person= 22.4", 216" provided. There are 3 exits from the assembly occupancy and 1 from kitchen.

 

[mark handler]

The sign is only there to save the first few people

 

[chris kennedy]

In Chicago they put them down by the floor under the smoke.

 

[fatboy]

"In Chicago they put them down by the floor under the smoke."

I guess that only makes my original position clearer, (pun not intended) so someone crawls along the floor to the exit sign, to find themselves in front a window?

Sorry, we are wired to believe the exit sign is at the exit, not in the vicinity. JMHO, others may vary.

 

[mark handler]

"In Chicago they put them down by the floor under the smoke."I guess that only makes my original position clearer, (pun not intended) so someone crawls along the floor to the exit sign, to find themselves in front a window?

Sorry, we are wired to believe the exit sign is at the exit, not in the vicinity. JMHO, others may vary.

CA Building Code 1011.6 Floor-level exit signs. Where exit signs are required by Chapter 10, additional approved low-level exit signs which are internally or externally illuminated photoluminescent or self-luminous, shall be provided in all interior corridors of Group A, E, I and R-2.1 occupancies and in all interior rated exit corridors serving guest rooms of hotels in Group R, Division 1 occupancies.

Exceptions:

1. Group A occupancies that are protected throughout by an approved supervised fire sprinkler system.

2. Group E occupancies where direct exits have been provided from each classroom.

3. Group I and R-2.1 occupancies which are provided with smoke barriers constructed in accordance with Section 407.4

4. Group I-3 occupancies.

The bottom of the sign shall not be less than 6 inches (152 mm) or more than 8 inches (203 mm) above the floor level and shall indicate the path of exit travel. For exit and exit-access doors, the sign shall be on the door or adjacent to the door with the closest edge of the sign or marker within 4 inches (102 mm) of the door frame.

Note: Pursuant to Health and Safety Code Section 13143, this California amendment applies to all newly constructed buildings or structures subject to this section for which a building permit is issued (or construction commenced, where no building permit is issued) on or after January 1, 1989.

 

[cda]

Since it is a main entrance and not required

If you wanted them can they be hung from the ceiling away from the doors, and not block line of sight to that TVs????

 

[mark handler]

Since it is a main entrance and not required????

Main exterior exit doors or gates that are obviously and clearly identifiable as exits need not have exit signs where approved by the building official.

Not always

 

[fatboy]

"Main exterior exit doors or gates that are obviously and clearly identifiable as exits need not have exit signs where approved by the building official."

yup.........

 

[fireguy]

I like the exits near the floor, especially in motels. People bang the wheeled luggage into the lights. Then lights need to be replaced.

I am not sure emergency and exit lights guide people to the exits. Ever been in a building on fire and been able to see the lights? Especially the radioactive lights.

When I check into a motel, I count the doors from my room to the exit. And not by sight, by feeling for the doors with my hand.

 

[Rider Rick]

Make the window in the middle a door.

 

[permitguy]

Exit signs aren't just for fire. What if the emergency is a gas leak, an armed robbery, or an old man hitting the wrong pedal and crashing his car through the main entrance? Even when the emergency being experienced is a fire, there are way too many factors to consider before making a statement like "the signs will only save the first few people". Compartment size, construction type, sprinklers, alarms, fuel load, occupant density, occupant training, etc.; all have a bearing on the outcome.

Having said that, I do see chronic over-use of exit signs which become a maintenance issue for business owners. If I go into the A-2 from the OP in a couple of years to do a routine fire inspection, and this is an obvious exit with an inoperable sign, I'm just as likely to have them remove it as I am to educate them about changing the bulbs/batteries. Some things just aren't worth the time it takes to follow up on. I'd have to see it in person and know more about the building before I make the call.

 

[chris kennedy]

I do see chronic over-use of exit signs which become a maintenance issue for business owners.

I looked at the LS page of the plans this morning and it only shows the door on the left being an egress yet the E pages show exits over both.

 

[mark handler]

I looked at the LS page of the plans this morning and it only shows the door on the left being an egress yet the E pages show exits over both.

Lack of coordination

 

[chris kennedy]

Lack of coordination

First time thats ever happened.

 

[mark handler]

 

[mark handler]

Chris

Personally I don't see an issue with the OP

 

[mark handler]

 

[mark handler]

Tenant covered exit sign with homemade Not an exit sign

 

[Rider Rick]

ChrisPersonally I don't see an issue with the OP

Not until someone dies.