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Exiting from elevator lobby after hours

nitramnaed

nitramnaed

Sawhorse
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
182
Location
L'Etolle du Nord
Hello Everyone,
I have been asked to review a proposed 2nd medical office for exiting. This is a QC review within our office, not a building department review and this is a programmatic layout so the rooms don't show doors. One of the staff mentioned that they thought the elevator lobby was an issue. The owner would like public access to the waiting area, plan south and personnel access, via fob, plan north. The question was after hours exiting from the elevator lobby by someone who would get off the elevator after hours and be trapped if something happened at that time with the elevator shutdown.
I think this is a reach, but I've had AHJ's overthink some of these things before.
See attached plan. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks, Jeff
 

Attachments

  • Med.pdf
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Can you use delayed egress hardware on the elevator lobby that would signal security if the door was opened by somebody without a pass card?
 
It would be much easier to fob the elevator and keep the elevator lobby doors unlocked. The access control system can be programmed to only allow fobbed access to the floor after business hours.

I don't see the point of fobbing the north lobby door, you can still get there through the waiting room.
 
redeyedfly said:
It would be much easier to fob the elevator and keep the elevator lobby doors unlocked. The access control system can be programmed to only allow fobbed access to the floor after business hours.

I don't see the point of fobbing the north lobby door, you can still get there through the waiting room.
Click to expand...
They don't want patients using a door that gives them free access to the clinic.
 
redeyedfly said:
It would be much easier to fob the elevator and keep the elevator lobby doors unlocked. The access control system can be programmed to only allow fobbed access to the floor after business hours.

I don't see the point of fobbing the north lobby door, you can still get there through the waiting room.
Click to expand...
Is this similar to access control in stairways? I believe IBC requires free access on all floors or electronic control to the fire station.
 
nitramnaed said:
Is this similar to access control in stairways? I believe IBC requires free access on all floors or electronic control to the fire station.
Click to expand...

Firefighters would have firefighter control, if they needed the elevators,
Plus they could have a fob in Knox box to use

Good idea if the elevator can handle it
 
nitramnaed said:
Is this similar to access control in stairways? I believe IBC requires free access on all floors or electronic control to the fire station.
Click to expand...
No. Interior Stairways are Exits. Fobbing an elevator is the same as locking the door to gain entry to that floor. You're restricting ingress, not egress. The elevator will still allow you to exit the floor. If you get in the elevator on another floor it will not allow you to select the access controlled floor without a fob outside the times you program it to be open. You still need to be able to egress the elevator lobby to an exit (interior stairs in your case) no matter what.

1010.1.9.12 is specific to stairs. If you enter the exit and discover there is a fire below you, you must be able to re-enter the building to find another exit. This doesn't apply to elevators. But the elevator must always allow people to enter from any floor if it's an AMOE and take you to a level of exit discharge.
 
redeyedfly said:
But the elevator must always allow people to enter from any floor if it's an AMOE and take you to a level of exit discharge.
Click to expand...
So even after hours. Someone in the elevator lobby will need access to the stairs. So the waiting room doors will need to provide that access no matter what?
There is no way to control access into the medical clinic except for an alarm lock or connection to the fire station in the lobby.
The solution for security is if you are inside the elevator it won't stop at at that floor after hours without a card or fob, but if you are in the lobby you can still access the elevator.
 
nitramnaed said:
So even after hours. Someone in the elevator lobby will need access to the stairs. So the waiting room doors will need to provide that access no matter what?
Click to expand...
Yes. Elevators are not MOE, only AMOE in conjunction with other MOE. You can never lock someone IN any part of a building. You can lock them OUT (unless it's an interior exit stair over 4 stories without locks controlled by the fire control room)

nitramnaed said:
There is no way to control access into the medical clinic except for an alarm lock or connection to the fire station in the lobby.
The solution for security is if you are inside the elevator it won't stop at at that floor after hours without a card or fob, but if you are in the lobby you can still access the elevator.
Click to expand...
You can control access into the space via the elevator but you can't trap someone in the lobby with the elevator as their only MOE since it's not an MOE. Controlling access from the stairs is more of a challenge. You are required to have a fire control room to operate the locks in the stairway. The AHJ can waive the fire control room requirement and allow fire control from the lobby but that is not prescriptive in the code, you need specific approval.
 
nitramnaed said:
So even after hours. Someone in the elevator lobby will need access to the stairs. So the waiting room doors will need to provide that access no matter what?
There is no way to control access into the medical clinic except for an alarm lock or connection to the fire station in the lobby.
The solution for security is if you are inside the elevator it won't stop at at that floor after hours without a card or fob, but if you are in the lobby you can still access the elevator.
Click to expand...


Is this a high rise building????
 
nitramnaed said:
So even after hours. Someone in the elevator lobby will need access to the stairs. So the waiting room doors will need to provide that access no matter what?
There is no way to control access into the medical clinic except for an alarm lock or connection to the fire station in the lobby.
The solution for security is if you are inside the elevator it won't stop at at that floor after hours without a card or fob, but if you are in the lobby you can still access the elevator.
Click to expand...

"", but if you are in the lobby you can still access the elevator."""


I am thinking maybe no???
 
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