F.A. Batteries Leaking ?

[north star]

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Greetings to all !

I have a situation that I am perplexed on.

I have a Fire Alarm Panel that has water in it !.......In a preliminary inspection

of it, there are no signs of any roof or ceiling leaks above the panel, ...no

condensation coming in through the conduit, and no temperature extremes

present because of any natural or mechanical heating & cooling of the space

in which the panel itself is located.

In discussing this situation around the office, someone; from a nationwide

fire alarm servicing company [ F _ s h e r ], ...has stated that some types of

batteries have leaked some type of water vapor, in to some FACP's.

Has anyone else experienced this problem ?

Thanks for any input !



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[mjesse]

Don't forget to rule out the cleaning people or vandalism.

Haven't heard of the water vapor producing batteries.

 

[steveray]

On a cold exterior wall? Condensation from that?

 

[Gregg Harris]

I would discount the battery vapor, since they are VRL sealed units.

 

[north star]

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We are still investigating this problem........At the location in question,

water has shorted out the panel [ internal ] circuitry.

As far as we can [ initially ] determine, no Janitor or other type of

vandalism has been determined.

The FACP is located on an interior wall.........No condensation effects

that we can determine.

Possibly, ...a battery manufacturer defect of "some" batteries ?

We are continuing to investigate this problem, because it will cost

[ approx. ] $1,200.00 to replace the internal circuitry........Again, this

problem is only at one location at this time.

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[Gregg Harris]

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We are still investigating this problem........At the location in question,

water has shorted out the panel [ internal ] circuitry.

As far as we can [ initially ] determine, no Janitor or other type of

vandalism has been determined.

The FACP is located on an interior wall.........No condensation effects

that we can determine.

Possibly, ...a battery manufacturer defect of "some" batteries ?

We are continuing to investigate this problem, because it will cost

[ approx. ] $1,200.00 to replace the internal circuitry........Again, this

problem is only at one location at this time.

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Acid will leave corrosion and easily tested.

Condensation through conduit is common scenario from being run through different high low ambient temperatures. Water leaking into exsposed junction boxes. Building being in a negative pressure can siphon water into conduit under the right conditions.

 

[cda]

So what did the batteries case look like??

If in good normal shape it was not the batteries

What kind of business???

 

[north star]

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cda,

Don't know the condition of the battery cases yet......Representatives

will be conducting an actual "on-site" visit tomorrow [ 02-27-14 ] to

gather evidence and other.

This is a military installation FACP !



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[cda]

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cda,

Don't know the condition of the battery cases yet......Representatives

will be conducting an actual "on-site" visit tomorrow [ 02-27-14 ] to

gather evidence and other.

This is a military installation FACP !



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OHHHHH and can you clairify when you say water as in a little, a lot, condenstaion?? other

How old is the panel?

 

[cda]

Is the panel door kept locked and key out of door??

 

[mjesse]

I'll throw out a crazy hypothesis, because I've seen something similar.

*Panel installer ran a screw into a concealed water pipe, causing said pipe to leak into the panel via the screw.

Saw it done in a kitchen cabinet install.

mj

 

[north star]

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Presently, I do not know the "actual" information on the site, but rather,

...2nd hand info.........Also, I do not know the amounts of the liquids inside

the FACP............On-site reps. said it was water, but that has not been

substantiated yet.

As far as a penetration in to a neighboring water pipe, ...don't know.

That's part of the planned investigative process........Causes & speculation

are being bantied about the office.

The bottom line right now is, that there is a FACP with circuitry that

has been rendered inoperable; by some sort of liquid [ i.e. - initially

stated as being water ] and having to be replaced.

[ - - - - - - ]

 

[FM William Burns]

I have seen this occurance at least (4) times in my 30 year career and each occurance has been due to a water leak issue following conduit from above (roof/ice, broken water pipe in concealed space, dishwasher, bathtub etc.). I have never seen a 12v 26 or 8ah battery leak water but I supose a defective/cracked one may.....I would also check service /maintenance records for replacement schedules and see if they were replace recently.

 

[north star]

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A FWIW FOLLOW-UP:

Representatives from our office visited the site and looked closely at

the FACP "in question", and other areas.

They found no evidence of any water or other types of [ possible ]

liquids in the FACP itself...........No water streaks, ...dried film residue,

...leaks, or anything else !........The "powers that be" are now disputing

the contractor's statements and refusing to pay the repair costs of

the internal circuitry.

Our investigation is continuing...

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[cda]

Aurora Borealis strike??? You do not have lighting in Alaska do you??

Power surge

Do a meter reading on the ground if grounded?

My guess building has backup generators?? Are they automatically cycled and if so would they power the panel on a weekly/ monthly run?

Or are they run by manual start and if so same question?

Check run record

Has building lost power in past few months??

Any other electric problems in the building in past few months

Also, check inspection/ maintained see what and when work was done on system, maybe someone dropped a wrench in the panel

Also as with any electrical device , just went bad

 

[north star]

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Yes, the bldg. DOES have back-up genny's !

Not sure if they are auto. or manually activated,

...pretty sure they are auto.

Also, not sure about the bldg. losing power recently.

Obtaining accurate info. is problematic.

No maintenance performed recently on the FACP either !

The "powers that be" are looking for answers and not

wanting to pay for something without a definite cause.

As I stated earlier, the investigation is continuing...

FWIW, ...the property location is not in Alaska, so

no Aurora Borealis influences. :shock:

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[cda]

Ohhhhh

So lightning back in the equation

I was trying to say are the generators run every so often and if so during periodic runs do they power the fa

 

[FM William Burns]

Now my recommendation would be to check the weather in the area prior to the downing of the FACP and most probable cause would be lightning strike at or near the building....happened frequently to simplex 4000 series (if applicable). The powers at be can subrogate simplex/tyco/fisher on the installation and pop in a new board/circuit or FACP

 

[cda]

for weather history or contact the local fed weather or if a flying base they may have the waether history

http://www.wunderground.com/history/

lightning strike data, cost money unless you ask the feds