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Festival seating in a convention center

D

DAYWALKER

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
66
Location
NORTHERN ILLINOIS
Nfpa 101 2000.......section13.2.5.4.1: Exception #2......requires a "life safety evaluation".

What type of qualifications, or credentials, should this ahj be looking for from the evaluator?

For what it's worth, the osfm has respectfully declined to be involved.
 
Cda,

you nailed it.......concert. Total square footage of the room is 13,500. Factor out 1,000 sf for the stage.

So the promoter is selling 2,500 tickets for the event. He figures....in his ultimate wisdom......that 12,500 sf divided by 5 sf per person.....allows for standing room only (festival seating = no seats other than the floor)

and intends to pack the room with 2,500 people.

So.......no access isles for emergency responders, no way to get to the fight that will break out when someone goes for a cocktail, and loses their standing room only space up close to the stage, and no way to get to the poor guy who gets so excited that his heart stops.

I'm told that the concert is sold out.......how would you handle it?
 
What is your job Bo or fm???

Private facility or public???

How soon??

Was an occupant load established for this facility prior to today ????
 
What is the occupant load on the CO?

Toilet facilities?

Sprinklers?

Main exit capacity?

Crowd managers? 1 per 250 attendees.

See 2009 IFC Chapter 4

It is also important how the people are introduced to the building as there are several cases of people rushing in to get to the front resulting in multiple fatalities.

This has all kinds of alarms screaming--and if goes forward likely a significant body count from stampede.

IF dont have above factors get BO and FM together and seek injunction.
 
Fire alarm? Emergency voice/alarm communications system? Other method for notifying occupants of an emergency?

I'm told that the concert is sold out.......how would you handle it?
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1. Tell them the concert will not proceed without AHJ approval. Period. It's much easier to explain the rationale of disallowing it to an angry promoter than it is to explain dead bodies to the press. There is no exception in the code for an event that is already sold out.

2. Offer to meet them on-site to discuss the concerns. Explain to them that it is not your responsibility to teach them the entirety of the code surrounding such an event, and the conversation will go much smoother if they have a design professional present who is familiar with the code.

3. Base the decision on whether the event may go forward on the code. Nothing more, nothing less. If it turns out they can't do it, tough. If it turns out they can do it, great. Either way, they'll know to plan better in the future.
 
DAYWALKER said:
Cda,you nailed it.......concert. Total square footage of the room is 13,500. Factor out 1,000 sf for the stage.

So the promoter is selling 2,500 tickets for the event. He figures....in his ultimate wisdom......that 12,500 sf divided by 5 sf per person.....allows for standing room only (festival seating = no seats other than the floor)

and intends to pack the room with 2,500 people.

So.......no access isles for emergency responders, no way to get to the fight that will break out when someone goes for a cocktail, and loses their standing room only space up close to the stage, and no way to get to the poor guy who gets so excited that his heart stops.

I'm told that the concert is sold out.......how would you handle it?
Click to expand...
Here's an interesting article: Crowd Management

The last line in the article is interesting. IMO charge the venue with providing sufficient information, and leave the venue to talk turkey with the promoter. Keep a record of all communications both verbal and written. Written is better. Take the position that festival seating is not permitted unless proven otherwise. Good luck
 
IF it is not brought into code compliance with all of the below life safety and sanitation features, it will likely take an injunction to stop the concert.

Also get police involved for the security issues.

We have had issues with promoters of "warehouse" parties holding the events anyway after being told not to or not getting any permits to start with.
 
Cda:bo and fm....public venue.....concert date 12.30.11......co documented at 1,500. By the way...it's bret michaels

frank:toilet facilities inadequate....fully sprinklered and voice alarmed....main exit hard to get to but appears

to be wide enough for half the crowd.....i'm told there will be 20 gorillas in security jackets and 4

uniformed officers to protect bret.

Permitguy: Great advise

imhotep:printed off crowd management.....copy going to the mayor and venue owner.

Thanks to all.....i will keep you advised as this plays out.
 
Day

You do not say what job you do or authority you have over this

Sounds like they are over the assigned occupant load
 
Cda,

thought i answered you in post#13......but here goes.

I am the building official, building inspector, zoning officer, fire marshal, and other duties as assigned.

Basically, it's my call.
 
Sorry missed the fine print

1 tell them you will enforce the occupant load assigned

2 you said a public facility as in city owned???

3 you will require stand by people/ fire watch at thier cost

4 you will count everyone in and shut the doors at occupant load

5 you should get the cops involved and see if added security can be required

6 if they do not agree shut the show down before it happens
 
Cda,

actually a private facility (timbercreek inn & suites / convention ctr.) public venue.

We have already discussed my presence at the door to perform a head count and enforce the occupancy load.

Thankfully....i've got the mayor, police chief and fire district backing me up.

The promoter....is in panic mode.
 
I would also want to consult with the city attorney to see if an injuction is needed to put teeth in the orders.

With similar issues here we get the police, fire, building inspections and the attorney's office involved.
 
DW,

In an effort to be proactive you may want to create a document of code regulations applicable for the venue and statement on how the regulation is applied and benefits. Discuss this with venue management for future events and try to have the venue coordinate pre-event meetings with road tour management, security chief and emergency responder suprevisors so all stakeholders know what to look out for and prevent during an event...especially if events involve hazardous materials or the wrong types of fogging material and equipment. This is in the best interest of all stakeholders and documentation of such goes along way in protecting oneself and jurisdictions from unwanted exposure.

Sounds like you are handling it and enjoy the show....be sure to inspect backstage...especially with who is headlining....the sites alone..........be safe!
 
Sounds like you are handling it and enjoy the show....be sure to inspect backstage...especially with who is headlining....the sites alone..........be safe!

Take pictures
 
The saga continues......and changes on a daily basis. Now the plan is to provide seating (concentrated chairs only, not fixed) and the code says 7 net.

Here's the question i need help with.......when you take the total square footage of the room, do you need to deduct the square footage of required aisle space for exit access before dividing by 7 to calculate the maximum occupancy load?

Gotta go before the city council tonight with this hot topic.........help!!!!!!
 
Would require a seating plan first for review

Than base o/l on number of seats and stage area

And maybe a few more people, depending on what plan shows
 
DAYWALKER said:
...when you take the total square footage of the room, do you need to deduct the square footage of required aisle space for exit access before dividing by 7 to calculate the maximum occupancy load?
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1002.1 defines Net Occupant Load as the actual occupied area not including unoccupied accessory areas such as corridors, stairwells, toilet rooms, mechanical rooms and closets.

One interpretation may say that the list of spaces given in the definition are separated from the occupied space by physical walls, and as aisles are not listed and are not separated from the occupied space, that the aisle area can be included.

Another interpretation is to say that the aisles are similar to a corridor, and therefore should not be included in the area calculation.

However, consider trying to design the occupant load of the space if the occupant load must be reduced by the area of aisles. This would require first guessing the aisle area, laying out the occupant load of the space, and then seeing if you assumed the correct aisle area, and then refining the design as necessary.

Therefore, it seems reasonable to include the aisles as part of the assembly occupancy space, and not deduct them from the net area under consideration, as this is both consistent with a reasonable interpretation of the code, and provides the ability to identify an occupant load to a space without necessitating an exact seating arrangement.
 
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