wow.......did not know that it was restricted to "lower class" young people...........
Hey, I did that when young but not in lower class!
Classic FM said:The build up was huge; top-class concerts open to the general public were virtually unheard of at the time and excitement was so great that tickets were sold for a public rehearsal of the music in Vauxhall Pleasure Gardens. Around 12,000 people flocked to the performance in Green Park in April 1749, resulting in a traffic jam that closed London Bridge for several hours.
Despite the frenzy of preparation, no one had factored in the possibility of bad weather. So naturally it rained, most of the fireworks refused to light, and the few that did light caused the staging to catch fire. There’s no record of what Handel made of it all, although a contemporary, Horace Walpole, reported that the evening was 'pitiful and ill-conducted' but 'very little mischief was done, and but two persons killed’.¹
Wikipedia said:Most definitions of class structure group people according to wealth, income, education, type of occupation, and membership in a specific subculture or social network. Most of the social classes entirely ignore the existence of parallel Black, Hispanic and minorities societies. Sociologists Dennis Gilbert, William Thompson, Joseph Hickey, and James Henslin have proposed class systems with six distinct social classes. These class models feature an upper or capitalist class consisting of the rich and powerful, an upper middle class consisting of highly educated and affluent professionals, a middle class consisting of college-educated individuals employed in white-collar industries, a lower middle class composed of semi-professionals with typically some college education, a working class constituted by clerical and blue collar workers whose work is highly routinized, and a lower class divided between the working poor and the unemployed underclass.²
I go to a Oprah house for rock concerts all the time. mcohjt.com And I take lots of drugs, most are prescriptions.
Do you think we should be in a class system?
T Murray said:You might be showing your age somewhat here...
You are right, at 82 I come from a much better age, I've watched things go downhill and it's painful, much of the world sees us as a corrupt society wanting to dominate the world with our New World Order, when the Pussy Riot thing hit Russia I thought Putin was going to go crazy thinking our corrupt culture was permeating his country. Why do you think theocracies hate us so? Many countries and their religions think we should be destroyed, just look at what's happening to Europe right now, with Sub Saharan Africans and Middle Eastern Muslims invading destroying the culture of the Enlightenment, draining the entitlement societies into bankruptcy. Here I thought that with a change in administrations we could clean house in the Justice Department and get rid of this unconstitutional ADA thing, come to find out the Justice Department is loaded with corrupt lifetime civil servants, it has much bigger problems than ADA. The FBI is also part of the Justice Department, just look at the corruption there, and here I thought the major corruption in this country was at the local level like Building Departments illegally charging fees and diverting them to other uses.
Since when did this thread started by showing a nightclub fire get turned into a political and socioeconomic one? We are here for building codes not politics and I have posted about this before. Knock it off....again. There are plenty of other sites to discuss politics, moral values and socioeconomic behaviors. Not here.
Jeff:
The problem is the International Codes have gone well beyond health and safety and are now political, particularly here in California where building departments are illegally diverting money to other uses, we are averaging 7 years to get a permit to build a house in the Bay Area, the building departments deliberately sit on them because One Bay Area wants affordable housing and not the housing most of us build. Then again maybe I'm wasting my time here, maybe all this forum is about is a spot for a bunch of guys who want to to go work every day and take home a paycheck.
Jeff:Using permit fees to generate revenue above the actual costs of running the department is not limited to California. It is happening in every single state in the country and has been for decades. Yes, that is technically illegal as "taxation without representation" but it is neither new or rare. At the same time, some smaller communities lose money and struggle just to provide the needed services. It is rare that the excess money above the cost of running a code enforcement department is called into question but I can assure you in at least one instance in Pennsylvania, the courts sided with the permit holder and limited the amount of fees an agency can charge. PA now has case law to back that up. The problem is that no one pushes back unless we are talking big money and due to the fact that no one wants to "rock the boat" by creating tension with an enforcement agency knowing that their project still needs to go through plan review, inspections and the issuing of a C of O.
So if you want to make a statement such as mine above, use it as a guide. If you want to name call and make this political with wild accusations and opinions, that is not welcome. You are always entitled to your own opinions, just not your own facts. Just tone it down. Conspiracy theorists not welcome, factual posts are. Youtube had to act on Alex Jones, I don't want to have to do the same to you.
Jeff:
It's hard to respond to this statement because you acknowledge my points, in California back in the early 2000s the NAHB sued several cities for charging over the cost of delivery of services and won, the cities paid the damages and resumed their illegal activity. All I can say is illlegally taking money from people is far worse than minor violations like those pointed out by Tiger here on almost a daily basis. I had a good inspector who had a sign up in his cubicle saying: "Green is the new Red", eventually he told me he was quiting, he couldn't take it anymore. At that time he told me he had no idea who would be assigned to me but named two guys who he said were real a$$holes, they would nitpick contractors then come back into the office bragging about what they were doing, isn't that a lot of what's going on here? BTW, I did get another great guy, he told me: "You know what you are doing, I'm just going to let you do what you want," He did return on his own one day after an inspection with a sheet of paper, on the sheet was a special county ordinance showing propane pans being turned up 6" around the edges instead of the 2" that we normally do, he appologized and asked me to rebuild my propane pans. At the end when he went to sign the final he asked: "Are you sure you want me to sign this, have you been paid yet?" I said no but I'll get the last million dollars when he did sign, he grabbed his pen and asked: "Where do you want me to sign?"
My fear is that we are losing all the good guys who don't want to be part of a political agenda, I guess I hope to influence those here to be whistleblowers and expose those AHJs who are committing crimes. As I pointed out yesterday, why does it cost $200,000 to permit and inspect a 4,000 foot house in Calfiornia while a 4,000 foot house in Nevada can be permitted and inspected for a little over $3,000? Part of it I'm sure is the fact that the Building Department has incorporated the Housing Department as a way to fund housing for the poor with permit fees paid by us contractors, pure Marxist: "From Each according to his Abilities, too Each according to his Needs". Again, not only are codes political, but entire building departments are political.
Mountain Man:If you where to ask for a break down of those "Permit Fees" it would look like this in my jurisdiction
14% building related fee and 86% impact fees. I imagine CA has a lot more impact fees and review fees then we do.
$240,000.00 evaluation
Plan Review Fee $ 50.00
Building Permit Fee $1,558.85
Water Impact Fee $2,567.00
Sewer Impact Fee $5,757.00
Storm Water Impact Fee $1,121.00
Police Impact Fee $ 41.00
Fire Impact Fee $ 483.00
Total Fees
paid when permit
is issued $11,577.85
If you where to ask for a break down of those "Permit Fees" it would look like this in my jurisdiction
14% building related fee and 86% impact fees. I imagine CA has a lot more impact fees and review fees then we do.
$240,000.00 evaluation
Plan Review Fee $ 50.00
Building Permit Fee $1,558.85
Water Impact Fee $2,567.00
Sewer Impact Fee $5,757.00
Storm Water Impact Fee $1,121.00
Police Impact Fee $ 41.00
Fire Impact Fee $ 483.00
Total Fees
paid when permit
is issued $11,577.85