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Fire Alarms on Wood TJI Ceiling (Exposed)
- Thread starter eyan50495
- Start date
eyan50495
Registered User
Ok let take my shoes off again so I can do some trig
What I am asking is the code saying you have to put a fire alarm system in the building to begin with.
The section from the building/fire or amendments
Ok one more time
Ceiling 126 inches
Beam oc 16 INCHES
Equals 12.698 percent
LESS THAN
So
Where beam spacing is less than 40 percent of the ceiling height (0.4 H), the following shall be permitted for spot detectors:
Ceiling 126 inches
Beam oc 16 INCHES
Equals 12.698 percent
LESS THAN
So
Where beam spacing is less than 40 percent of the ceiling height (0.4 H), the following shall be permitted for spot detectors:
- i.
Smooth ceiling spacing in the direction parallel to the beams and at one-half smooth ceiling spacing in the direction perpendicular to the beams
- ii.
Location of detectors either on the ceiling or on the bottom of the beams
eyan50495
Registered User
Thank you CDA! Math on a Friday too.. no to the delayed egress.
IFC (907.2.7 Group M) says a Fire Alarm would not be necessary for this occupancy of this load (<500 occ total, <30 occ below, no 2nd story) but the local fire ordinance requires one.
Page: 227 refers to Fire Alarm NFPA 72
Page: 249 section 18.11 requires a Fire Alarm for ALL new Mercantile Occ.
Ordinance:
https://www.nassaucountyny.gov/DocumentCenter/View/17509/NCFPO_2016_rev_3-28-18?bidId=
Well talk about a code rewrite
And a
Poor code rewrite
So I do not see anything in this passage that requires "smoke detection"???????????????
NFPA 72 is just an how to book. It does not dictate what has to be installed.!!!!!!!!
Is there another section in this novel that says smoke detection is required??
Fire Alarm System Required All new Mercantile Occupancies shall have a fire alarm system installed. The fire alarm system shall meet all the requirements of NFPA 72.18.11.3.1Existing Mercantile Occupancies where mammals (except horses, cattle, pigs or sheep), birds(except for chickens or other fowl used for food purposes), reptiles and/or amphibians are regularly kept or stored prior to their adoption, sale or gift as pets to the general public, shall have a fire alarm system installed by January 1,2018
And a
Poor code rewrite
So I do not see anything in this passage that requires "smoke detection"???????????????
NFPA 72 is just an how to book. It does not dictate what has to be installed.!!!!!!!!
Is there another section in this novel that says smoke detection is required??
Fire Alarm System Required All new Mercantile Occupancies shall have a fire alarm system installed. The fire alarm system shall meet all the requirements of NFPA 72.18.11.3.1Existing Mercantile Occupancies where mammals (except horses, cattle, pigs or sheep), birds(except for chickens or other fowl used for food purposes), reptiles and/or amphibians are regularly kept or stored prior to their adoption, sale or gift as pets to the general public, shall have a fire alarm system installed by January 1,2018
Not sure how long this has been going on, or how someone would even figure out the cost of a job using this code:::
Ordinance:
https://www.nassaucountyny.gov/DocumentCenter/View/17509/NCFPO_2016_rev_3-28-18?bidId=
Ordinance:
https://www.nassaucountyny.gov/DocumentCenter/View/17509/NCFPO_2016_rev_3-28-18?bidId=
eyan50495
Registered User
Yes, Nassau County's Fire Marshal's requirements is notoriously like a black hole. Other than the fact they say it is required in ALL new mercantile occupancies and per NFPA 72's locations, there isn't anything else on there.
Here in Nassau you have the option to file fire protection drawings 'regular' or 'expedited for a fee'. One gets you across the finish line in weeks and the other in many many months. No one does regular. It's the cost of playing ball here. Fun place to work!
So where and when do these documents come into play???
"""""""""""""The 2015 International Fire and Building Codes""""""""""""""""""
Are they also adopted in the city/county where this store is???
https://www.nassaucountyny.gov/Docu...ow-Frequency-Alarm-Signal-Requirements?bidId=
eyan50495
Registered User
You're right... the county ordinance is very poorly written. I have to assume by "Fire Alarm" they are referring to both the Fire Alarm AND the Fire Detection.
Regarding the IFC, I'm assuming that would come into play IF it was more restrictive. It doesn't seem like it is. I have found in this Fire Ordinance that they also refer to the New York State Uniform Fire Prevention and Building Code. Upon a quick search, that points to the Fire Code of NYS which also does not discuss fire detection in an M occupancy (it only discusses a fire alarm based on occupant load - I'm assuming this is based on IFC).
So go back to IF and WHERE these smoke detectors would be located one would assume it's via NFPA 72.
Still no clue where the FA sub is getting his information on needing to install a smoke detector within each joist bay. I'm waiting on more information from my FA engineer as I asked him the same set of questions.
Further confused...
Under Ibc/ ifc if the building is sprinkled, no smoke detection required.
NFPA 72 does not dictate when to install
VillageInspector
Sawhorse
We are currently under the 2020 IFC here in NYS as of May 12, 2020. I would suggest you look at IFC Section 907 and in particular section 907.2.7 Group M. I think that might help you out.