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Fire Area boundary

M

Mech

Registered User
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
1,037
Location
Eastern PA
2009 IBC

Is a fire area size measured from the inside face of the exterior wall / fire barrier / fire wall / etc. or is it measured on the exterior face?

A 100 x 100 ft building with 1 ft thick walls

What is the fire area? 10,000 sf or 9,604 sf (98 ft x98 ft)

Thanks
 
FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or horizontal assemblies of a building. Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the fire area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor next above.

I would say it is the inside dimensions since it is the "area enclosed"
 
Builder Bob - For the exterior walls, would you still use center of wall if occupant load is calculated as gross floor area?

The actual building is a bar / tavern / restaurant, so it is group A-2, which is restricted to a 5,000 sf fire area to avoid sprinklers. The first floor fire area is above 5,000 sf if we use the outside face of exterior wall, but is less than 5,000 sf if using the inside face of exterior wall. The second floor will be separated by fire rated construction. Likewise, the basement will be separated by fire rated construction.
 
Mech said:
Builder Bob - For the exterior walls, would you still use center of wall if occupant load is calculated as gross floor area?The actual building is a bar / tavern / restaurant, so it is group A-2, which is restricted to a 5,000 sf fire area to avoid sprinklers. The first floor fire area is above 5,000 sf if we use the outside face of exterior wall, but is less than 5,000 sf if using the inside face of exterior wall. The second floor will be separated by fire rated construction. Likewise, the basement will be separated by fire rated construction.
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when you talk about fire area and occupant load

You are talking about camels and monkeys, two different things as far as how to measure?
 
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Coug Dad got it.....when in doubt, go to the definitions.....if you are using the OL for fire area that OL might be calculated off of the gross outside dimension, but for area, it is clearly inside...
 
Thanks for answers.

OK, so the fire area for the restaurant is 4,760 sf, defined by the area inside the exterior walls. The owner would like a deck out the back for fair weather dining. Per the definition for fire area, this deck would not increase the 4,760 sf fire area since it is located outside the exterior walls.

However, if the owner decides to put a roof over the deck, the 4,760 sf fire area would now increase by the area of the roof (assuming no roof overhangs) plus the area of the exterior wall itself.

Do I have this correct? It seems the more I read, the less I understand.

Thanks.
 
1004.8 Outdoor areas. Yards, patios, courts and similar outdoorareas accessible to and usable by the building occupantsshall be provided with means of egress as required by this chapter.The occupant load of such outdoor areas shall be assignedby the fire code official in accordance with the anticipated use.Where outdoor areas are to be used by persons in addition to theoccupants of the building, and the path of egress travel from theoutdoor areas passes through the building, means of egressrequirements for the building shall be based on the sum of the

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occupant loads of the building plus the outdoor areas.

 
The actual building is a bar / tavern / restaurant, so it is group A-2, which is restricted to a 5,000 sf fire area to avoid sprinklers.

Don,t foreget the other 2

2. The fire area has an occupant load of 100 or more;

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or





3. The fire area is located on a floor other than the

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level of exit discharge.

 
Thanks hlfireinspector - I should have stated that the deck will have its own egress. More than likely, one of the building's exits will discharge to the deck and utilize the deck's egress. The deck's egress will be sized to handle the occupants on the deck as well as the building.
 
The A-2 portion is the level of exit discharge.

During our initial meeting, the occupant load was under 100; I need to keep my eye on that and make sure the final occ. load does not exceed 100. Otherwise, they will end up dividing this into two smaller fire areas.
 
Exiting from the exterior deck back through the building does not increase the OL for the building (fire area). It only adds to the egress width requirements. As long as they do not install a roof over the deck or enclose it the deck area is not a fire area and does not add to the OL of the existing restaurant even if it had 500 people on it
 
Builder Bob said:
Mtlog - The only way the OL from the deck would be added to the interior occupant load is if all egress from the decks entered the building - same as you would be doing for restroom.
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I agree it counts towards Egress requirements but I do not believe you would add the deck OL to the restaurant defined fire area and then require sprinklers in the existing building.
 
mtlogcabin said:
Exiting from the exterior deck back through the building does not increase the OL for the building (fire area). It only adds to the egress width requirements. As long as they do not install a roof over the deck or enclose it the deck area is not a fire area and does not add to the OL of the existing restaurant even if it had 500 people on it
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Alright up there?

Air Force bomber crashes in Montana – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

Few b-1' s crash
 
mtlogcabin said:
Did not know about it. That is actually in Jim's (JP ranch)back yard, He might hear more on his local news
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Just wondering why they were sending B-1's your way, Trying to succeed??

OR. Secede??
 
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