Fire Doors Where Not Needed

[LGreene]

I've got another one I'd love some input on. This is part of a larger situation going on with inspections of healthcare facilities, but while I'm waiting for a resolution on that, I'm trying to break down the problem into smaller questions.

The questions are...Is it permissible to have a labeled fire door where a fire door assembly is not required? If a labeled fire door is installed, must it meet the requirements of a fire door (self-closing, self-latching, etc.)? If a fire door is not required and the door is not maintained as a fire door assembly, must the label be removed?

http://idighardware.com/2016/11/ff-not-fire-door/

 

[steveray]

1. Yes
2. No
3. No

I know it makes "annual" inspections on older buildings more difficult, but in my opinion, you can do better that code and why would you require someone to violate the listing on a fire door (by removing the label) because it was not required to be such...This has been "solved" in the 2012 IBC where fire rated assemblies (walls) now need to be labeled and maintained for posterity...

 

[fatboy]

I have a bit of angst on this one. My thinking, that would be like having an exit sign hanging over a door, that doesn't meet all other requirements for exits, but it's OK because it is not required to be an exit?.

But then we get into stairs, and guards, other things that aren't required, but must they meet all the requirements?

I think I would rather see the label covered, or disappear. That's how I would handle the exit sign in my scenario.

JMHO

 

[steveray]

I would have no issue with covering the label like in the pic if not required, but ultimately knowing which walls are rated id the more important thing to know..A label does not lead someone to a door like an exit sign, so I have no issue with that, but have had people pull signs from doors that are not legal exits...

 

[cda]

" In the Old Days"

The only difference between a solid wood 20 minute door and a rated door was the "label"

And some ahj's would accept the solid wood door with no label in place of a labeled door.

 

[JBI]

When did going 'above code' become a problem?

 

[steveray]

When did going 'above code' become a problem?

As Lori said above, it becomes an issue for ongoing inspections (fire or health care licensing) to determine which walls are required to be rated (and have been violated by the low voltage guys inevitably) and which ones just ended up with rated doors that aren't required. The 2012 change with the assemblies being labelled is a help, but maintaining an accurate set of plans for the building really id the best bet...

 

[cda]

When did going 'above code' become a problem?

When you go above the code and it creates code problems,

Like adding exit signs over every door

 

[JBI]

"... but maintaining an accurate set of plans for the building really id the best bet..."

AND the proper way to conduct fire safety and property maintenance inspections.
A rated door is NOT the same as an an exit sign being placed where not required.
The placement of an exit sign would require the identified portal to be a compliant exit.
The use of a rated door does not carry the same requirement.
Apples and oranges IMHO.

 

[tmurray]

"... but maintaining an accurate set of plans for the building really id the best bet..."

AND the proper way to conduct fire safety and property maintenance inspections.
A rated door is NOT the same as an an exit sign being placed where not required.
The placement of an exit sign would require the identified portal to be a compliant exit.
The use of a rated door does not carry the same requirement.
Apples and oranges IMHO.

Completely agree with this. Anyone who is more than just a monkey inspecting fire doors would be easily able to determine whether it was a required fire door or not. If there is a concern, keep a marked up copy of the plans to reference during the inspection.

Doors signed as exits must be exits, because people will be expecting them to operate as such. If the building designer does not want me to enforce the exiting requirements on an area, don't put an exit sign on it.