fire house with sleeping quarters R1?

[permitguy]

We're on the second page in a thread asking if an R occupancy requires sprinklers in accordance with the IBC?

Sheesh.

 

[Architect1281]

Thanks permit guy for the reminder, the issue was resolved within 15 min we're just here seeing whose is bigger

 

[permitguy]

Brudgers is. Just ask him.

 

[JMORRISON]

Civic Administration building "B" occupancy

 

[mtlogcabin]

Civic Administration building "B" occupancy

Only the office portions

In my corner of the state most rural stations are VFD and do not have sleeping areas

 

[MarkRandall]

Looks like I sparked a little debate.

I should have added a little more detail since I actually do agree with brudgers. I don't see a whole lotta reason for small rural fire departments to have sprinklers in all buildings. My point of view was more from the idea that our codes are moving in the direction of all single family homes getting sprinklers. If you're going to tell that 1,500 SF home owner that he has to sprinkler his home, then the fire department, in principle, should be willing to sprinkler their building whether code requires it or not.

I'm not a backer that all SFR need to be sprinklered and I see lots of exceptions to not sprinklering a small engine house.

You have to admit that many fire departments advocate sprinklering and they should walk the talk. I'm only debating principle, not reality

 

[JBI]

Yes, it requires sprinklers throughout the building.

BTW, there is hospital in my area, just a few miles from my house that is located between Callicoon on the Delaware and Narrowsburg (also on the Delaware, but not in it's name). Between them there are four Towns, the total population of all four towns is about 4,000 people spread over close to 150 square miles. Last time I checked that qualifies as 'rural'.

In my current hometown, approximately 30 sq miles and population +\- 800, also 'rural', there are two fire stations. Neither have sleeping quarters for the all Volunteer Department Members.

Maybe 'they' do put hospitals and fire stations in rural areas afterall...

 

[FM William Burns]

Late to the game and didn't read alll cuz of fishing and tired but if it has bunk room sprinklers are required.........IMHO.

 

[brudgers]

my school burned that book.sheriff's departments are often located in rural areas and rural clinics are often located in rural areas as well.

Neither would necessarily require sprinklers either - e.g. a clinic is not a hospital.

 

[brudgers]

Only the office portionsIn my corner of the state most rural stations are VFD and do not have sleeping areas

Shirley you don't expect that to stop those people from requiring sprinklers as a matter of principle?

 

[Big Mac]

R-2 - Most similar to a dormitory. These people are more familiar with their surrounds than people in a hotel/motel. These people are not transient. By the way - sprinklers required. Typically the fire stations I see have S / B / A-3 / And R-2.

 

[fatboy]

The point that brudgers is trying to make in his usual obnoxious, often childish, antagonistic manner, and this is my spin, if you have a rural FD, sprinklers are over the top due to any number of issues, are you going to kill a station perhaps serving 300, 400, 500 residents, because it is not feasible to fire sprinkler the station that houses the 5-8 FF's? Really? Sorry, for me, I'd rather trust the guys that know how to put out fires to take care of themselves, and be there to take care of the citizens when they are needed. JMHO

 

[mtlogcabin]

I believe you can build a fire station without sprinklers through out and be code compliant. The trick would be the R would have to be located in a separate building with a 13R system a 3 hour firewall with opening protection and possibly no sprinklers if fire areas are limited between the remaining use groups.

 

[fatboy]

And therein lies the problem. Of course there are code compliant solutions. Take the sprinklers out altogether, just not feasable, ain't going to happen, what can you live with? Would you kill the project?

 

[brudgers]

I believe you can build a fire station without sprinklers through out and be code compliant. The trick would be the R would have to be located in a separate building with a 13R system a 3 hour firewall with opening protection and possibly no sprinklers if fire areas are limited between the remaining use groups.

The 13R would provide the necessary life safety for a mixed occupancy where the only requirement for sprinklers was due to a residential component meeting the criteria for 13R.

But 13R doesn't solve the rural location problem regarding water supply reliability requirements.

 

[brudgers]

The point that brudgers is trying to make in his usual obnoxious, often childish, antagonistic manner, and this is my spin, if you have a rural FD, sprinklers are over the top due to any number of issues, are you going to kill a station perhaps serving 300, 400, 500 residents, because it is not feasible to fire sprinkler the station that houses the 5-8 FF's? Really? Sorry, for me, I'd rather trust the guys that know how to put out fires to take care of themselves, and be there to take care of the citizens when they are needed. JMHO

One wears Doc Martins, not pumps, to stomp out groupthink.

 

[TJacobs]

When the station burns to the ground with all the equipment in it, who is the winner?

 

[peach]

The fire station is a B, the housing is an R (doesn't matter R1,2 or 3); it's a mixed occupancy and the sprinkler is required. I guess I don't get what the OP wants).

 

[fatboy]

Actually, the discussion has kind of went a bit OT, we were kicking around if the sprinklers were not (reallistically) technically or financially feasible, would the AHJ stick to the letter of the code and require the required sprinkler system, even if it tanked the project. .

 

[FM William Burns]

I use to love when my former (note..former) boss reminded me to use discretion on matters where the political football would be played. If the code required it in plain black and white text without exceptions, I apply it and leave it up to the suits to decide a higher level of discretion and always feel comfortable moving on. If a rural fire department building is going to house sleeping quarters then the code says sprinkle it or create approved separation and sprinkle the sleeping quarters. Plenty of substantiation examples exist for fires in fire stations in both vollunteer and career houses.

Is the Mayors apartment conversion next? As a code official I'm always willing to consider alternatives that would suit the use of the administrative area of the code but selective application and enforcement of the code by the "code official" is just wrong in my humble opinion.

 

[Builder Bob]

The discussion about water beinag available...... Rememebr a 13R only has a 30 minute water supply required (2 heads at 15 gpm each; 30 gpm demand x 30 min. = 900 gallons) -

A NFPA 13 system requires a two hour supply - 4 heads @ 25 gpm ; 100 gpm + outside hose stream 100 gpm (?); 200 gpm *60 mins * 2 = 24,000 gallons)

IF golf courses can be built with irrigation system in the middle of the dessert, I do not see how a 1000 gallon pressurized tank can't be installed for a rural fire department.

 

[permitguy]

Well sure, if you're gonna be all logical about it.

 

[brudgers]

When the station burns to the ground with all the equipment in it, who is the winner?

The community because of all the lives which were saved prior to the destruction.

 

[brudgers]

IF golf courses can be built with irrigation system in the middle of the dessert, I do not see how a 1000 gallon pressurized tank can't be installed for a rural fire department.

The economics of golf course development are quite different from those of a fire station.