Fire Hydrant Question

[itsasurewin]

Hey everyone,

Quick question.

I have a client that wants to tap into a 6" line that feeds a hydrant and they want to tap into this 6" line and connect a 2" irrigation line. Are you allowed to do this?NFPA code references would be good.

Thanks.

 

[Coug Dad]

There is typically a curb valve to isolate the hydrant. No taps are typically allowed between the curb valve and the hydrant. Check with you water purveyor. They will have the final say.

 

[cda]

Would say no nfpa code for this situation

As stated the water supplier or city since should have a backflow, may have rules to follow

Is the fire hydrant on private property or city right of way

 

[tmurray]

if the development has been taken over by the city your engineering department will have to sign off on it. If it is still under the developer's agreement then the developer's consultant will have to sign off on it.

in most cases the answer is going to be a firm "no". Would you want someone siphoning off water to water their lawn while you are trying to fight a fire? I doubt it.

 

[cda]

Would say also depends on how the main runs and how the hydrant is tapped off the main

So how are things in Canada?? Do they employ foreign fire inspectors ???

 

[itsasurewin]

Would say no nfpa code for this situationAs stated the water supplier or city since should have a backflow, may have rules to follow

Is the fire hydrant on private property or city right of way

The fire hydrant is on private property. The city does not maintain their hydrants.

 

[cda]

Sounds like check with a few other city departments that deal with irrigation permitting and find out what the policy is

After all the water for the hydrant , domestic , irrigation is flowing from the same supply

 

[tmurray]

Sounds like check with a few other city departments that deal with irrigation permitting and find out what the policy isAfter all the water for the hydrant , domestic , irrigation is flowing from the same supply

While it is all from the same source the pipe is sized to handle a fire (maybe more if it is a very long run) if you start introducing minor losses here and there pretty soon you don't have sufficient pressure. Even if the irrigation system is not being used at the time of a fire you will still have a larger friction loss. this entire system has been designed by an engineer, so without a design from an engineer there should be no additional attachments. Any skilled engineer will require a test at the most remote hydrant to test the amount of water that is reaching the end and calculate the assumed losses. If the modifications are done without the consultation by an engineer any potential liability rest with the city and the individual can be held personally liable here in Canada . Get them to provide documentation that they will not adversely affect the system.

ps. I worked for a fire engineering firm and have preformed the tests and calcs, so I know they are possible.

 

[cda]

TM

I agree somewhat with what you say

 

[Insurance Engineer]

If the 6" main came into the building and split and serviced the domestic water and fire protection systems would you permit it? In my area this is a very common set up. I do not see this as a problem. At most NFPA 13 is only going to require 500 gpm for hose demand assuming this is a fully sprinklered building.

 

[FM William Burns]

What type of building does the 6" serve. A 6" water main with one hydrant on a dead end can be limiting depending on the structure, length of underground pipe and fire flow required for the type of building. Once again not enough information provided. For instance a dead end run of 400 feet could leave one short for hose demand and then tapping to water the grounds can reduce it further.

I would recommend having the building owner get a water supply analysis done with a qualified person running some flow testing so you can have accurate data and realize how short you'll be with letting someone tap off a private supply and "assumed" dead end. I would be using NFPA 24 as my reference for water supply for private fire protection mains......just saying.

 

[tmurray]

The other thing to remember is that whatever you do in this situation sets a precedent that will have to followed on all subsequent requests that are similar. So, while one person hooking up to the line isn't likely to cause a problem, if you allow a connection without approval by an engineer all connections will be permitted without approval of an engineer and all those friction and flow losses add up really quickly.

 

[Inspector 102]

All the above comments are definitely the direction to go to tap the hydrant main after checking for fire flow requirements. My question would also include is there going to be a meter on the irrigation line and who is paying for it. You say it is a private line, but where is the water coming from. Our water department would definitely want to know who is using the water amd how much.

 

[cda]

there are to many variables with this to give a good answer, can it be done, yes

are there other city departments invovled, more than likely, our building dept deals with lawn irrigations systems and backflows for them

 

[itsasurewin]

Thanks everyone for all the informative feedback. They decided not to tap into the 6" line and connect a 2" line for trickle irrigation. However, we would not hav a problem if this was the case in the near future.