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Fire separation btwn F-1 kitchen & roof deck in Type 3B

PDubois

PDubois

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Mar 5, 2018
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8
Location
New York City
Hi,

New to the forum & hoping this is an easy question.

I'm adding a small commercial kitchen (for a bar) directly below a roof deck (uncovered) that is only accessible from a residential unit on the 2nd floor (bar is confined to the first floor).

I'm trying to sort out whether I need a rated ceiling assembly in the kitchen to create a fire separation from the roof deck above. Building is Type 3B and the occupancy of the kitchen is F-1.

Thanks in advance for the help.
 
How are you complying with exiting,

If I have to enter a person’s apartment to get to the roof or kitchen??

The kitchen is not for this particular unit is it??

Do you want to restate your question.

If you can change a picture of the floor plan to a link,,

You can post the link.
 
Egress is not an issue here, the roof deck and residential unit are existing and are not in our scope. The kitchen serves the bar dining room (not the residential unit) and there is no access from the bar or kitchen to the roof. The kitchen is 165 sqft.

Hope this helps to clarify!
 
Sounds like the kitchen may not be a F-1 and accessory to the bar occupancy. B or A3? Have you looked at non separated occupancies?
 
I was hoping that was the case but 2014 NYC code states that Kitchens need to separated from adjacent occupancies based on the table. There are exceptions for associated dining rooms but thats it.

from the Non separated occupancy code:
"3. Kitchens shall be separated in accordance with Section 508.4.4."
 
Ok lost on the layout but

Accessory to the use or just plain part of the bar, like any other bar kitchen set up,

Guess it is sprinkled?
 
The roof deck is directly above the kitchen. Attempting to attach a section sketch. Let me know if it doesn't work and I'll make it my profile picture or something.

The kitchen will have an ansul system but is not sprinklered.

Thanks for the help!

mYcY07
 
@PDubois, correct me if I am wrong, but sounds like we have an existing bar on the ground floor with an apartment unit over the bar. These are completely separate occupancies (A-2 and R-2).

Being an existing building, you will need to check into the buildings history - find out what the original occupancy of each level was. Also check into if there were any changes to these occupancies and if so, when and to what code were they completed.

Based upon current code (2015 IBC) per Table 508.4, you would appear to need a 2-hour separation (1-hr if sprinklered throughout building). This requirement is based upon the occupancy types provided and is not based upon the addition of a kitchen (will not change the A-2 occupancy).

Do I have the correct read on your situation?
 
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You have it fairly close. The actual R-2 occupancy does not overlap the bar or kitchen (I've updated my profile image to show a section sketch). The bar will be a B occupancy

So my question is whether the roof deck counts as R-2 also and needs a 2hr separation. I've also seen some others posts about roof decks not counting as Fire areas. Im not sure if this effects the required separation.

Thanks for the help
 
Ok, now I see.

Will let others better reply, but I am thinking

No rated roof assembly. Plus no matter what the assembly should meet the requirement already.
 
A roof deck would not be a fire area....Never thought about "stepped" buildings as far as occupancy separations before...

508.4.4 Separation. Individual occupancies shall be separated from adjacent occupancies in accordance with Table 508.4.

Makes no reference to fire areas....Do you consider the roof deck an occupancy? If so it gets separated....I guess so that you and your friends on your roof deck don't fall into the flaming kitchen....
 
I appreciate all the feedback. Sounds like it boils down to whether the residential roof deck counts as an occupancy.

Is this a grey area in everyones opinion or is there a piece of the code that I'm missing?
 
If there is private access to the roof deck from the 2nd floor residential area, it would require separation.
 
As steveray pointed out the separation would be required between different occupancies, not the fire areas.

However to begin with it would help tremendously if NY has an existing building code (IEBC) for reference. There are several options that would allow the kitchen where the code does not reference or amended the "new" kitchen separation.

The IEBC for example permits "the use or occupancy of existing buildings shall be permitted to be changed and the building is allowed to be occupied for purposes in other groups without conforming to all of the requirements of this code for those groups, provided the new or proposed use is less hazardous, based on life and fire risk, than the existing use."

Additionally it may be useful to know this issue is further addressed in the 2018 IBC provided below.

302.1 Occupancy classification.
Occupancy classification is the formal designation of the primary purpose of the building, structure or portion thereof. Structures shall be classified into one or more of the occupancy groups listed in the section based on the nature of the hazards and risks to building occupants generally associated with the intended purpose of the building or structure. An area, room or space that is intended to be occupied at different times for different purposes shall comply with all applicable requirements associated with such potential multipurpose. Structures containing multiple occupancy groups shall comply with Section 506. Where a structure is proposed for a purpose that is not specifically listed in the is section , such structure shall be classified in the occupancy it most nearly resembles based on the fire safety and relative hazard. Occupied roofs shall be classified in the group that the occupancy most nearly resembles, according to the fire safety and relative hazard, and shll comply with Section 503.1.4

503.1.4 Occupied roofs.
A roof level or portion thereof shall be permitted to be used as an occupied roof provided the occupancy of the roof is an occupancy that is permitted by Table 504.4 for the story immediately below the roof. The area of the occupied roofs shall not be included in the building area as regulated by Section 506.

Exceptions:

1. The occupancy located on an occupied roof shall not be liimted to the occupancies allowed on the story immeditately below the roof where the building is equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2 and occupant notification in accordance with Section 907.5 is provided in the area of the occupied roof.

2. Assembly occupancies shall be permitted on roofs of open parking spaces of Type I or Type II construction , in accordance with the exception to Section 903.2.1.6
 
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