Fire Sprinkler System in Townhouses - Florida Attorney General

[jar546]

How similar is your jurisdiction for those outside of Florida?

[The Florida Attorney General has determined that for the purpose of the fire protection sprinkler requirements in Section 553.895(2), Florida Statutes, townhouses that are three or more stories tall and consist of three or more units together are multiple family dwellings. Therefore, these types of townhouses are not exempt from being considered for the requirements to provide fire protection sprinklers (even if there are any other definitions that define a townhouse as a single-family residence). So based on this design, installation of an approved automatic sprinkler system is required by Florida Fire Code.]

 

[mtlogcabin]

So just limit the height to 2 stories and a habitable attic
R325.6 Habitable attic.
A habitable attic shall not be considered a story where complying with all of the following requirements:

Anything over 3 stories is out of the IRC anyway

 

[e hilton]

So just limit the height to 2 stories and a habitable attic

A sharp plan reviewer would see right through that.

 

[mtlogcabin]

See through what? The code allows a Habitable Attic and it is not considered a story in the IRC

Instead of a Man Cave in a basement or garage you can now put it in the attic.

[RB] HABITABLE SPACE. A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces.

[RB] ATTIC, HABITABLE. A finished or unfinished habitable space within an attic.

R325.6 Habitable attic.
A habitable attic shall not be considered a story where complying with all of the following requirements:

1. The occupiable floor area is not less than 70 square feet (17 m2), in accordance with Section R304.

2. The occupiable floor area has a ceiling height in accordance with Section R305.

3. The occupiable space is enclosed by the roof assembly above, knee walls (if applicable) on the sides and the floor-ceiling assembly below.

4. The floor of the occupiable space shall not extend beyond the exterior walls of the floor below.

 

[Sifu]

"three or more stories tall" does not compute. You can have 5 levels in a townhouse and still be considered 3 stories above grade plane. As mentioned, a habitable attic is not a story, nor is a basement below grade plane. Seems like the Florida AG needs to better define his intent. The way it is written I see lots of room for argument. It sounds like a building with a basement, two stories above grade plane and a habitable attic would be permitted without sprinklers, but only if using the building code. Maybe there is more to the story (pun intended) and the AG has definitions we are not seeing?

 

[e hilton]

See through what? The code allows a Habitable Attic and it is not considered a story in the IRC

Instead of a Man Cave in a basement or garage you can now put it in the attic.

[RB] HABITABLE SPACE. A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces.

[RB] ATTIC, HABITABLE. A finished or unfinished habitable space within an attic.

R325.6 Habitable attic.
A habitable attic shall not be considered a story where complying with all of the following requirements:

1. The occupiable floor area is not less than 70 square feet (17 m2), in accordance with Section R304.

2. The occupiable floor area has a ceiling height in accordance with Section R305.

3. The occupiable space is enclosed by the roof assembly above, knee walls (if applicable) on the sides and the floor-ceiling assembly below.

4. The floor of the occupiable space shall not extend beyond the exterior walls of the floor below.

Ok, i think we have been through this before, but it still confuses me. You know i’m not on the permit/code side of the fence.

My first comment was this: seems like if the 3rd story triggers the need for sprinklers, if you then label the “3rd floor” as something else in order to avoid the sprinklers, you’re gaming the system to avoid an expense that increases life safety.

Am i reading this right in the definition: if the floor area is less than 70 sf then it is considered a story?

 

[mtlogcabin]

if the floor area is less than 70 sf then it is considered a story?

No it is an un-habitable attic space

R304.1 Minimum area.
Habitable rooms shall have a floor area of not less than 70 square feet (6.5 m2).

 

[steveray]

And then build it as an A frame and it is all attic...Pretty sure they screwed this royally in the 2024 IBC as they changed the definition I believe....

 

[brokenkeys]

I'm agnostic to the content of this but the delivery method is frustrating. Unincorporated Palm Beach County requires just about anything over 5k SF to be sprinklered. There are dozens of other municipalities that have similarly burdensome/nonsensical local requirements (even state code; HVHZ is for Dade and Broward but not Monroe?). I've always hated having two codes (FBC and FFPC) but the extra layers of crap like this (local amendments, statutes, administrative codes, whatever) that is not included in the codes really makes me want to move to another state.

When I google it, it comes back to a TAC, which I thought was non-binding/ something to be addressed in a future code? The AG can say whatever she wants but how does she enforce it? They don't do plan reviews so is DBPR issuing a binding interpretation?

Public schools have SREF and healthcare has AHCA, which are enforced through the licensing process and referenced and/ or partially included in CH4 of FBC so you at least get a heads up. But, public schools also have something similar to this; fire codes buried in the Florida Department of State's Administrative Codes (Administrative code 69A-58). They're rarely enforced because they're not referenced in either FBC or FFPC, so few people actually know about them, and even worse, they're based on very old code so conflicts with current code abound.

/rant

 

[mtlogcabin]

This is a 1997 opinion based off of NFPA 101 and SBCCI in effect at that time. It is not enforceable and it follows the standard that the most restrictive code applies when there are differences on the same subject. The last two paragraphs sum it up pretty well.

Firesafety requirements for townhouses | My Florida Legal

www.myfloridalegal.com

Jar
25 years later and all new codes. Do you still use NFPA 101 or the IFC. The IFC should match up with the IRC and make this opinion moot

 

[jar546]

This is a 1997 opinion based off of NFPA 101 and SBCCI in effect at that time. It is not enforceable and it follows the standard that the most restrictive code applies when there are differences on the same subject. The last two paragraphs sum it up pretty well.

Firesafety requirements for townhouses | My Florida Legal

www.myfloridalegal.com

Jar
25 years later and all new codes. Do you still use NFPA 101 or the IFC. The IFC should match up with the IRC and make this opinion moot

The Florida Fire Prevention Code