Forgot to do Drywall Inspection

[AlexAndErika]

Here is a summary of my question. this is my first post but I have been searching this forum for a while and it's been great, very helpful!

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I am building a home here in Southern Califonria as an Owner Builder.

I called for my lath inspection last month, when the inspector called me he asked if I was done with drywall. I told him no, I was just starting drywall but wanted to start the stucco if possible and that was why I was calling for the lath inspection. He told me to "finish the drywall" because they do the lath and drywall inspection at the same time. I took that as I needed to "finish" the drywall.

Today when the inspector showed up for my lath and drywall inspection the first thing he asked me was, "why did you finish the drywall?"

The inspector explained that the drywall inspection is to verify screws. He said he could not see all the screws. He said my lath was fine but to reach out to the inspector who told me to "finish the drywall" as that was the inspector that told me to finish and he had to deal with it.

Have you ever dealt with a situation like this?

I took hundreds of photos of the framing before drywall because I will use those down the road for hanging TV's, adding electrical if needed, etc. But I only took 30-40 photos of the drywall that shows the nails.

I am in the process of putting new screws in, it's a pain but it is what it is. I can mud over the screws quickly and move on. It's a couple extra days of work and a good learning lesson for me.

I think the worst part about the situation is the lack of communication with the inspectors and building department. I call the inspection hotline for a question and rarely get a call back or speak to a live voice. I leave comments in my inspection requests that never get read with questions I have. Nobody bothers to return a phone call or an email or respond.

But I am posting here wondering if you had to deal with a similar situation before?

Attaching a few of the photos I have before we started taping and texturing.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

It happens a lot more often than it should. In your case, it appears that there was a definite miscommunication between you and the inspector who told you to finish the drywall, and you interpreted that to mean "finish" the drywall rather than complete hanging it. A contractor would (or should) have known that the drywall inspection is for the purpose of inspecting the fastening.

More often than not, we get homeowner DIYers who just ignore that list of required inspections we give them with the permit and they just do everything, and then (maybe) call for a final inspection.

 

[ICE]

It should be lath and insulation… then drywall.

 

[jar546]

I think the worst part about the situation is the lack of communication with the inspectors and building department

Along with your lack of understanding of the construction industry, processes, and procedures; there is shared blame. You should have asked for a pre-construction meeting to clarify the process and inspections and the building department should require more extensive paperwork for owner-builder permits. Maybe they did and you just did not read everything which is honestly the case where I am.

Owner-builder permits are the most troublesome of all for building departments because we have people who are not familiar enough with the process and lingo and often not competent enough to do the job. I am not saying that you are any of those, but that is the case most of the time. Each time we put a stop work order on an owner-builder job site, the owner gets upset, and I simply point to the appropriate owner-builder paperwork section that they signed and had notarized and tell them they need to read it and not just sign it next time. I am not being harsh, just in case your skin is thin. I'm being honest.

Lastly, it is not the Building Department's job to hold your hand through the entire process if you decide that you are competent enough to build a house by yourself and not just pull the permit and hire unlicensed contractors to do the work just to save money. It is your job to know what you are doing and understand the process, and if you don't, ask questions first.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

owner-builder paperwork section that they signed and had notarized

Interesting, never herd of that. I wonder how many places they have that. Why does it need to be notarized? We just give everyone a list of required inspections.

 

[tbz]

AlexandErika,

Welcome to the forum as a contributor of information.

I will be a little less direct that JAR possibly, but the reality of it is that everyone has a profession. I am not sure what you do for a living full time, but those that you report to, do they expect you to understand the basics of your job or do they need to hand hold you through each project.

I am not an inspector, nor building official, I am a consultant to a specific industry, thus, it took me a long time to understand that the building department was not an educational facility, but rather was a regulatory arm of the local authority having jurisdiction. In comparison, would you walk into a police station and ask if I do this is it legal, then proceed to ask please explain why or why not. I know that sounds a bit harsh, but as my father always said to me till he moved on, education cost money and we only pay for about 2% of our education to an organized educational entity.

Having gone through what you are dealing with many times for different things as the code changes and updates, I always tell clients you need to understand what is expected of you, if you don't that is what a fulltime professional is for, hence a contractor or builder. By forgoing their cost for their knowledge, you are electing to educate yourself, which is not free I have always found out.

I routinely review building department inspection list for changes and clarification. Till this day, I still ask a few of the agencies why it says drywall inspection and not drywall screw inspection? I normally get a dear in the headlights type of look back but is that not what they are really doing....

In a nutshell, you just got an education, and you paid for it, but you would be better off posting the inspection sheet they gave you on this forum before starting the project and asking for a little help to understand something you want to learn than question why you are not getting returned phone calls, comments on questions and other routine answers to pretty much things someone like yourself once going through the process fully once would know moving forward or someone in the profession who already knows.

It's not that they probably wouldn't want to answer all the questions owner/contractors have, its that if they did they would not get done what they are specifically paid to do, as you are one of how many doing the same thing with all the DIY channels showing presto moments.

There is a reason people pay quality contractors to do the work you have elected to do yourself.

On a flip side, you might want to check the local community college or adult night schools for courses on navigating your own home build or renovation. I have seen a large tick in growth across the country with these types of non-credited courses.

I hope this helps you better understand a possible reason for the 2 sides of the view.

Again welcome and hope you continue to post as you go through your project, I know this is a professional forum and there are many diy forums that miss or incorrectly note code compliance issues.

Good Luck

 

[TheCommish]

Frustration here with all parts of the process. Unexperienced construction supervision both DYI and contractors. We have stapled to the permit card a list of instruction of what inspection are needed and when, what needs to be done for those inspections those inspection. Continually we have question when do you want to inspected, what need to be done, I hit rock now what, no one else requires that and terminology issues, were is that in the code.

I stopped building because I was tired. I am not building your project for you, put the big person panties on and stop watching DYI home shows for construction experience.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

We have a standard pamphlet for residential inspections .... goes out with every DIY permit or contractors we're not familiar with:

 

[Yikes]

For. The those of you blaming the homeowner for not hiring professional, notice the location of the original poster: San Diego. All of Southern California has a tremendous construction labor shortage right now, and if you want to get something done on your home, oftentimes your choice is to (a) wait for a very long time for a quality contractor to be available, (b) do it yourself, or (c) hire people who are available now because others aren’t interested in working with them - - - perhaps due to lack of quality / experience.

Due to the structure of California’s economy (a whole different topic), the construction industry goes through boom-and bust cycles which cause a lot of people with intermediate experience to leave the state for a more stable living.
As much as I wish that there was a big pool of competent contractors available at a reasonable price, I think DIY is the only option for many homeowners, and building departments should create explanatory handouts or even YouTube videos describing the typical inspection process.

 

[bill1952]

I'm surprised that there are not more educational offerings to help diy folk. Where I lived before I took one, more focused on the historical restoration aspects, and I think 2 of maybe 8 evening sessions included people from the building department. It was run by an architect with a passion for restoration.

Parks and rec or whatever institution that offers bread baking and such classes. These are not terribly difficult skills. My ancestors built their houses - my brother lives in one built by great grandfather in 1840's - and clearly there are examples of it being successful.

I do find the attitude if assuming all diy are not competent and the building department prejudices, clearly noted above, unfortunate.

 

[ICE]

Here is a summary of my question. this is my first post but I have been searching this forum for a while and it's been great, very helpful!

I am building a home here in Southern Califonria as an Owner Builder.

Congratulations on the new house. And you got lucky when you found this forum. While the forum is not a DIY site I suspect that a great many DIY'rs come here. I've built a thing or two, been an inspector for a long time and I get schooled here just like you... well maybe not just like you but you get the idea.

So to your question. I seems that you've run into two misinformed inspectors and being a novice you didn't know when to stop. The first inspector should not have told you to finish the drywall prior to a lath inspection and then there's the insulation to consider. The lath inspection includes me checking for shiners. Shiners are nails or staples that didn't hit a framing member or did hit a cable or pipe. Theoretically the insulation should not be in place yet but I don't have a problem pulling some of it out to see if you missed....or hit. I don't know about San Diego but a large part of California now requires a HERS rater to inspect the insulation. I'm betting you didn't get that.

The second inspector is wound up about not seeing the screws. The lids is where it matters. It is rare that drywall fails inspection... it does happen. You have a boat load of pictures. What should cause him to be concerned is the shiners and insulation that he can't see.

In the long run, if you have to add screws for an inspection... oh well, in the grand scheme of things it could be sooo much worse.

Now to the reception that you got here. A working inspector will probably react differently than a retired guy like me. When I was the inspector I didn't have the time nor the inclination to teach an owner how to build a house. Why would I take the time and effort to explain it all to a person that's going to do it once? If I wouldn't do it for a contractor, why would I do it for an owner.

It's a bit of an affront to expect to master a series of trades in the time it takes to perform the trade. I can appreciate the ballsyness if it's a simple room addition, but a whole house is pushing the boundary. You can see the finish line so hooray for you.

The little girl loves the camera.

 

[BN4537]

A DIYer who is diligent with their research will outperform a contractor who thinks they know everything every single time. Some of the best work I have seen was from DYIers - but they also come up with some of the most unique violations I have seen.

Really depends how much effort they make to research what they are doing.

 

[mtlogcabin]

He said my lath was fine but to reach out to the inspector who told me to "finish the drywall" as that was the inspector that told me to finish and he had to deal with it.

IMHO That inspector needs to attend some customer service training seminars. Telling you to call the other inspector sounds like middle school girl drama.

Since you have plenty of photos verifying the work was done and meets the intent of the code, he could have approved it right then if he was aware of the photos you have.

Did you have an insulation inspection?

 

[ICE]

Telling you to call the other inspector sounds like middle school girl drama.

There’s been many times when I have told a customer to get with the last inspector.

I was told by management that I was not allowed to write corrections on anything that had been approved. If I was there for a follow-up inspection for corrections, I was not allowed to write additional corrections. Many times I just shook my head and walked away.

I have been on final inspections when I said, “Oh Hell no.” There’s inspectors that I refuse to follow behind.

 

[tbz]

Well JAR,

Here is a good topic for your next video series, An Overview of the IRC inspections List.... part 1.

 

[tmurray]

We have a standard pamphlet for residential inspections .... goes out with every DIY permit or contractors we're not familiar with:

View attachment 12230

We provided something similar to this. I have always been troubled by the "not my job" attitude displayed by building officials in this regard. It may not be your job to manage the project, but it is definitely your job to minimize administrative failures of the system where possible. This is just judicious use of tax/fee payer money.

 

[mtlogcabin]

There’s been many times when I have told a customer to get with the last inspector.

The building department is a team effort and if there are issues with following another inspector then there is not consistency within the work of the inspectors.
Ice from your post it appears that you worked for a jurisdiction that was not interested in following 101.3. That is very sad that they have lost sight of their purpose within the community.

[A] 101.3 Intent.
The purpose of this code is to establish the minimum requirements to provide a reasonable level of safety, public health and general welfare through structural strength, means of egress facilities, stability, sanitation, adequate light and ventilation, energy conservation, and safety to life and property from fire, explosion and other hazards, and to provide a reasonable level of safety to fire fighters and emergency responders during emergency operations.

Gypsum screw assemblies are not a required inspection unless it is part of a fire assembly or structural.

110.3.5 Lath, gypsum board and gypsum panel product inspection.
Exception: Gypsum board and gypsum panel products that are not part of a fire-resistance-rated assembly or a structural assembly.

 

[SCBO1]

I have been on final inspections when I said, “Oh Hell no.”

That's a good one!

ICE, I'll add that one to my arsenal of banter!

I've told my inspector when he's questioned, to ask them to "Go get their code book!"

We heard this a lot: "Your the only city enforcing that!" He's allowed to say: "Then we must be the only ones enforcing the code then!" Go get your code book and I'll show you where to find the code!

 

[Inspector Gift]

ONE OPTION: Meet the inspector and use a stud finder that also detects metal to show the screw pattern. Have the inspector select the areas, so they will see the fasteners are there.

 

[ICE]

Drywall inspection results in one of three outcomes. It all passes. There are a few screws too close to an edge and a few missing screws. The work is screwed with a over-driven screws. The OP has plenty of pictures.

The inspector can find out who did the work and based on how the rest of the job looks, make a decision. If the inspector is not 100% comfortable he/she/they can ask for additional screws.

The building department is a team effort and if there are issues with following another inspector then there is not consistency within the work of the inspectors.

The building department is every man/woman/binary for themselves. Cliques exist. Racial animosity thrives. It is one department of a hundred buried in bureaucracy of 120,000 people.

Ice from your post it appears that you worked for a jurisdiction that was not interested in following 101.3. That is very sad that they have lost sight of their purpose within the community.

They have purpose within their own community and it has nothing to do with "public health and general welfare". Let's be honest, how many building building departments care about anything beyond a paycheck?

I have been privileged to know three inspectors and two engineers that I trust... and that's over a span of thirty years. Granted, not all of the other hundreds were abject louts. No not at all, they generally were polished just enough to be presentable... knew enough code to bamboozle the citizens.

The unvarnished truth is that the building departments where I've worked are a cruel hoax. Some might think that I am a disgruntled curmudgeon... nay, nay I say, for I have the evidence.

I thought about this for a while and realized that when I first started as an inspector the atmosphere was completely different. People cared. People respected the inspectors. Job sites weren't a mess and work stopped when we showed up. The shift to what exists today was subtle and every now and then some old timer presents a quality experience. Instead of asking them to turn down the music, I'll find quiet and donuts.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

We provided something similar to this. I have always been troubled by the "not my job" attitude displayed by building officials in this regard. It may not be your job to manage the project, but it is definitely your job to minimize administrative failures of the system where possible. This is just judicious use of tax/fee payer money.

The more education we can do to prevent "oh, (*&@*&@" moments, the better.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

The unvarnished truth is that the building departments where I've worked are a cruel hoax. Some might think that I am a disgruntled curmudgeon... nay, nay I say, for I have the evidence.

Heh, heh ...

More than once I have commented that I should make a career out of being an expert witnesses for architects being sued for professional negligence. The legal standard of care is (paraphrased) doing what another qualified professional in the same jurisdiction would do. And, based on decades of first-hand experience, I can truthfully testify that virtually none of the architects in my state design buildings that meet code, or produce construction documents that satisfy the minimum criterion of showing that the work when completed will conform to code requirements.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

That's a good one!

ICE, I'll add that one to my arsenal of banter!

I've told my inspector when he's questioned, to ask them to "Go get their code book!"

We heard this a lot: "Your the only city enforcing that!" He's allowed to say: "Then we must be the only ones enforcing the code then!" Go get your code book and I'll show you where to find the code!

In a conversation with my boss on Monday, he said something about contractors knowing the code and I responded that as a code official I don't really want the contractor to keep the code on the site. He asked why. My answer was that I don't care to get into an argument with the contractor every time I do an inspection. The approved construction drawings are supposed to show what's needed to build it. Producing the construction documents is the job of the design professionals. The contractor's job is to build what's shown on the approved plans, not to redesign the building.

If we need contractors to have code books on the site, IMHO that's proof that we're not doing adequate plan reviews before approving permits.

As for "You're the only town that asks for that," I get that response at least once a week, and the other inspectors probably get it more frequently. The answer is always the same: "I gave you the code section. If no other town is enforcing the code, that's not my problem."