Furniture in Toilet Clear Space

[Kendra]

I am working on an ADA restroom at a restaurant and the interior designer is proposing a storage cabinet that encroaches on the toilet clear space by about 2" (against the wall directly across from the toilet). In my opinion this is a negligible amount and will probably never be perceived, but does this still technically opens the client up to a lawsuit? I know ADA guidelines don't say anything about furniture, but it still makes me nervous about recommending something that comes into the clear space.

 

[e hilton]

I would tell them to leave it off the drawings. After final inspection ... you don’t want to know what they do.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I don't know about ADA but ANSI let's you have (open) shelves there but not a cabinet.

604.3.2 Overlap. The required clearance around the water closet shall be permitted to overlap the water closet, associated grab bars, paper dispensers, sanitary napkin receptacles, coat hooks, shelves, accessible routes, clear floor space at other fixtures and the turning space. No other fixtures or obstructions shall be within the the required water closet clearance.

 

[SCBO1]

If it's on the plan review I'd say they need to abide by the ADA rules and adjust accordingly.

 

[TheCommish]

If there is a piece of furniture there, cabinet, trash can it in, it is not clear space then.

 

[ADAguy]

A technical violation is a triable violation, it remains for the courts to decide.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I wonder why it's ok to have shelves there like a storage shelf unit or bookcase in the clear space? I think it would be as bad as a cabinet there.

 

[steveray]

I think the intent there is probably a small shelf like a sop dish or somewhere to put a personal item if you need to.....

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I see sanitary napkin receptacles sitting on the floor in within the the required water closet clearance many times. The code does not require them to be attached to the wall?

 

[ADAguy]

non- fixed item but still subject to challenge by "testors"

 

[fatboy]

I'm with ehilton.

Delete off plan per interior designer, do the final and walk away.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I wonder why it's ok to have shelves there like a storage shelf unit or bookcase in the clear space? I think it would be as bad as a cabinet there.

A bookcase is not okay. What is okay is an overhead shelf that doesn't interfere with maneuvering a wheelchair.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I am working on an ADA restroom at a restaurant and the interior designer is proposing a storage cabinet that encroaches on the toilet clear space by about 2" (against the wall directly across from the toilet). In my opinion this is a negligible amount and will probably never be perceived, but does this still technically opens the client up to a lawsuit? I know ADA guidelines don't say anything about furniture, but it still makes me nervous about recommending something that comes into the clear space.

This is why we shouldn't allow interior descrators to work in commercial buildings. They either ignore codes, or think they're exempt from them so they intentionally do things that violate codes and then expect the architect and code officials to clean up after them. (Disclaimer: I am a registered interior designer as well as being a licensed architect and a licensed building official.)

Clear maneuvering space is clear maneuvering space. They can't put furniture in it. While technically a code official code just ask for the offending item to not be shown on the construction documents (wink-wink, nudge-nudge), the fact that some idiot interior designer thinks it's a good idea to plan for a code and ADA violation is discouraging. I think it should be made clear to the owner/applicant that, whether or not it's shown on the plan the building department approves, if it installed it WILL be a violation of the building code and of the ADA. The owner (or the architect, if the interior designer works under the architect) really needs to tell the interior designer to step up to the plate and come up with a design that doesn't violate the code.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

A bookcase is not okay. What is okay is an overhead shelf that doesn't interfere with maneuvering a wheelchair.

ICC/ANSI A117.1-2003 604.3 tells us what is allowed in the required clearance around the water closet. one of the things are shelves. It does not say if these things could be on the floor, wall, hanging from the ceiling or on the toilet tank.

 

[arwat23]

This is why we shouldn't allow interior descrators to work in commercial buildings. They either ignore codes, or think they're exempt from them so they intentionally do things that violate codes and then expect the architect and code officials to clean up after them. (Disclaimer: I am a registered interior designer as well as being a licensed architect and a licensed building official.)

I'm an interior designer, and I agree to some extent. Every time I get plans created by other designers, I have to chop it up and rework a lot to get it to comply with code.

However, it's not just designers. A good chunk of the licensed architects I've worked with also do not seem to understand this code requirement. I got into a heated argument with my supervisor, and architect who's had a license for over 30 years and has almost exclusively worked on commercial buildings in his career, about this the other day.