Gate at base of stair with glass

[tbz]

Good evening all,

Have a client that restored the stone work on the front of their building in NYC,

They had a gate that opened outward split in the middle before at the base of the stairs.

I note gate, not door, this is a Multi use building, the client has a book store on the first floor and lives on the upper levels.

Normally on a residence I don't get to wiggly, and treat the gate just like the ones that go up and down in front of stores. However this one has a wrinkle to it because NYC does not allow the gates to swing outward more than 18", thus 2 sides for the 67" opening is not going to work.

They will allow 2 side panels with a split 18" gates = 36"

They don't care about the handrails being behind the gate wings because the handrails are not allowed to enter the side walk area.

The original gates which grew legs during the restoration were 2 full wings.

Now I know most here are not up on the funks of NYC codes and or but based on this type of install at your location, because of the stolen original product would you give the client a pass on the 18" so you would have clear width and or not and or how would you suggest I get through this negotiation with the building department?

By the way we were called in to reproduce the missing gates, had nothing to do with the magic act.

 

[mark handler]

1008.2 Gates.

Gates serving the means of egress system shall comply with the requirements of this section. Gates used as a component in a means of egress shall conform to the applicable requirements for doors.

You need a landing on both sides of the gate 1008.1.5

 

[JBI]

Accordian-style gate?

Personally, I like the look without any gate at all.

 

[fatboy]

If I'm understanding right, would a bi-fold setup work, and be compliant?

With NY codes.......but....Mark has a point.

 

[mark handler]

If I'm understanding right, would a bi-fold setup work, and be compliant? With NY codes.......but....Mark has a point.

Don't have codes with me, but from memory, exit doors need to swing?

 

[tbz]

Concept sketch, the gate would be opened during the day and shut down at night,

Mark, NYC does not count what they call security gates like doors they reference them more like the roll ups, my concern was egress also but the house has another door that is designated as the egress, so once gate closed no one in store, just house exit different for moe.

 

[tbz]

If I'm understanding right, would a bi-fold setup work, and be compliant?With NY codes.......but....Mark has a point.

Fat boy,

They would not be bifold, if bifold when un folded they would extend more than 18" in a swing.

We would be doing full 180 degree swing and they would be against the building locked in place.

The building department wants us to put a fixed panel on each side and then move the handrails inward and terminate behind the panels past the bottom riser, gate sits in front of bottom riser.

 

[tbz]

Accordian-style gate? Personally, I like the look without any gate at all.

JBI,

It,s more about keeping the homeless out of the entrance and when you push them out they come back and leave presents made personally by them.

Personally I would move, but then again I live on 26 acres and have enough to do with the deer leaving me presents along with the geese.

So it,s about need and looks not much else I can say on it.

 

[Coug Dad]

I have dealt with this before at buildings where the owner wanted to keep the outside vestibule from being used as a sleeping area, or worse, as a toilet by street people. The gates were reviewed on a case by case basis with consideration on what other exit paths were available from the building when the gates were closed. The gates were closed when the building was closed.

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

Concept sketch, the gate would be opened during the day and shut down at night,Mark, NYC does not count what they call security gates like doors they reference them more like the roll ups, my concern was egress also but the house has another door that is designated as the egress, so once gate closed no one in store, just house exit different for moe.

I don't see a problem with this sketch. It seems like a reasonable compromise given the restrictions, and the aesthetic seems to still match the continuity of the facade, even though it not probably exactly what the client wants, or what was previously installed (we have permitted repair and restoration work to match existing conditions in special circumstances where photographic evidence documents the conditions to be matched).

Sometimes my six year old throws a fit when he doesn't get what he wants, but that usually only gets him even less of what he wants, if not a few other things he never wants.

 

[mark handler]

They don't care about the handrails being behind the gate wings because the handrails are not allowed to enter the side walk area.

Nor ADA access, we will see this buisness entrance again...

 

[globe trekker]

What about one of those decorative metal, "roll up grille" type doors that could receded

into the alcove ceiling area? Is this an option?

.

 

[Big Mac]

Gates used as a componet in the 'means of egress" SHALL CONFORM to the applicable requirements for doors. Section 1008.2. It is quite obvious that this design does not meet IBC prescriptive requirements.

You have not stated what the occupant load is or what the common path of egress travel is, or what other exit doors may exist. All of these may have some bearing on what could be allowed. There are exceptions that allow for the closing of openings between mall tenant spces and the common areas. That may/or may not be something that can be used. It seems unlikely givent he fact that this does not appear to be a mall setting. Perhaps an alternate can be worked out if they are wiling to provide some degree of mitigation to increase user safety.

None of these things however address the issue of barrier free access which I assume the State of New York feels the need to satisfy, but maybe not.

 

[gbhammer]

Sometimes my six year old throws a fit when he doesn't get what he wants, but that usually only gets him even less of what he wants, if not a few other things he never wants.

I feel sorry itty for my six year old sometimes because she has a dad who is an :evil:enforcement officer, and now I see that I am not the only one to give out the never wants:cry:.