Gaurds on Exterior Stairs

[steveray]

Alora........The street or public sidewalk is usually the public way....

 

[alora]

...PUBLIC WAY. A street, alley or other parcel of land open to

the outside air leading to a street, that has been deeded, dedicated

or otherwise permanently appropriated to the public for

public use and which has a clear width and height of not less

than 10 feet (3048 mm).

Yes, but who typically owns the parcel(s) of lands on which schools are on?

If it's a charter school, then sometimes it's semi-public.

 

[steveray]

Yes, but who typically owns the parcel(s) of lands on which schools are on?If it's a charter school, then sometimes it's semi-public.

Public property and public way are two different things.......walking through Town Hall at 2AM gets a much different response than walking down the sidewalk.....

 

[Mule]

The stairs look like they may be an attractive nuisance. Perhaps given the clientele, an alternative life safety enhancement may be to add "buttons" along the top of the guard to prevent the installation from becoming a BMX/skate park venue.

AegisFPE, We would have required these if they would have permitted the job a little later than they did. We adopted CPTED rules in November of 2010. This was permitted about 6 months prior to that.

For those of you who are saying HUH????? CPTED Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design (also known by other names) is looking at crime prevention during the design steps of the building. CPTED looks at lighting, areas that invite vandalism and way to deter vandalism, areas where a person could hide and attack an individual. For instance....if you are building a structure in a downtown area and provide benches, then you would put a rail between where a person would sit to deter a homeless person from using the bench as a place to lay down and sleep. Buttons (as AegisFPE mentioned) on short concrete walls to deter skateboarders, desks looking out over the parking lot, thorny vegetation along walls where graffiti may be a problem and on and on.

Thanks to everyone for the disussion on this.

 

[tbz]

Mule,

Quick question, how was the design detail shown on the submitted drawings?

I would love to know why it was built this way or should I say designed this way

I don't know why architects keeping trying to design a square wheel.....

Tom

 

[pwood]

mule,

i also would like to mention that the handrail at the top landing does not terminate at a newell post or wall and creates a purse or clothes snag!

 

[Mule]

tbz, That's one of the first things we looked at. I thought I had screwed up because the plans indicate that the guards and handrails comply. We adopted the 2009 I-codes about the same time this project was submitted so i thought it was supposed to be the 4" spacing. Then the architect reminded me that this was permitted under the 2006........The specifications are correct on the plans, the manufactuer of the rails screwed up.

pwood,

The handrail would have terminated into the top bar IF they were manufactured correctly. Good catch though... I was so concerned over the gap I missed the handrail!

Here's a pic of the details. According to the details the handrail will be corrected also once they are installed according to plans.

 

[alora]

...

So, I guess the walkway side doesn't get a handrail.

That's one of the worst details I've seen.

Not to mention, it made it through plan check. As a revision, even.

No wonder it was fabricated incorrectly.

 

[Mule]

Why would the walkway side need a handrail?

 

[Examiner]

Okay most have caught the issues. Top space exceeds the 8" sphere rule, handrail extension does not return to wall or post and handrail is a bit short of projecting into the stair width. The 8" wide curb and the placement of the guardrail keeps the handrail inside the width of the 8" wide curb. Seems to me that the handrail's face must be a least in alignment with the inside face of the 8" wide curb. The 2006 Code Commentary illustrates the projection of the handrail in the stair's width [fig 1012.7(2)]. But the Code does not exactly state that the handrail needs to project into the stair's width. It only restricts the amount of the projection into the stair's width.

The stair may not be in the so called "means of egress" but the stair's use can be used by all including those with physically disabilities. The Architect is wrong thinking that the stair does not have to comply with the CODES including the accessibility CODES. After all it is a new building.

 

[tbz]

Alora, thats not a handrail, it's miss labeled, thats the schools new and improved chin up bar.........

I see they switch to measuring to the bottom of the handrail brackets also now and not the top.............for 1-1/2" clear vertical rise.

Question, does anyone else have a problem with the notation 1-1/2" aluminum guard?

Is this being manufactured with 1-1/2" O.D.Tubing or 1-1/2" Sch-80 Aluminum pipe which is 1.9" O.D.

Mule, forget the opening tell them to move the handrails to the outside per the print and watch the rise you get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good day to all........

tbz, That's one of the first things we looked at. I thought I had screwed up because the plans indicate that the guards and handrails comply. We adopted the 2009 I-codes about the same time this project was submitted so i thought it was supposed to be the 4" spacing. Then the architect reminded me that this was permitted under the 2006........The specifications are correct on the plans, the manufactuer of the rails screwed up.pwood,

The handrail would have terminated into the top bar IF they were manufactured correctly. Good catch though... I was so concerned over the gap I missed the handrail!

Here's a pic of the details. According to the details the handrail will be corrected also once they are installed according to plans.

 

[tbz]

Mule, I e-mailed this to a associate of mine, from the detail it shows (7) horizontals plus the top, it's built with only (6) plus the top, someone forgot the 7th length of pipe...

Might want to mention this, someone else might have already picked up on that.

Tom

 

[Mule]

Good observation, I know that the architect has determined that the supplier of the guard rails will be the one at fault. i mentioned that they didn't need them in the areas where the grade was 30" or less from the walkway/stairs but he said they will make them all the same for astetic purposes.

I still can't believe the architect questioned if the code actually required the missing rail.

I really do appreciate all of your comments. Sometimes when something is so obvious... you miss the other things like handrail hanging out in the wild blue yonder.

Again.. This board is the best around! Thanks

 

[alora]

Mule, I e-mailed this to a associate of mine, from the detail it shows (7) horizontals plus the top, it's built with only (6) plus the top, someone forgot the 7th length of pipe...Might want to mention this, someone else might have already picked up on that.

Tom

And, at the upper level guard section, it's constructed with only (5) horizontals PLUS the top.

 

[alora]

..., I know that the architect has determined that the supplier of the guard rails will be the one at fault...

Hopefully, the architect's shop drawing review stamp doesn't say "Approved".

 

[Examiner]

Well I guess the powers to be got the Barracuda software running again. Now I cannot see the pictures. Saw them yesterday before internet issues.