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Gender Neutral Bathrooms
- Thread starter Plumb-bob
- Start date
tmurray
SAWHORSE
The intent of the code is to develop an overall number of water closets that must be met assuming an equal division of users into each sex. You simply need to add the two numbers together to get a total water closet count of the building. If the minimum number is met, it is a code complaint design.
The building code does not implicitly or explicitly require gendered facilities. Providing gendered or gender-neutral facilities is a decision of the designer/owner.
The building code does not implicitly or explicitly require gendered facilities. Providing gendered or gender-neutral facilities is a decision of the designer/owner.
Yes, makes sense, thanks. This is a permit application for our local high school to convert existing washrooms to gender neutral W/Cs.
Inspector Gadget
Registered User
The code is only concerned about biological sex, not gender identity. *Generally* women pee more often. *generally* it takes longer for this function to be performed for ... plumbing reasons.
And remember when multiple water-closet situations are present, urinals can be swapped out at a ratio.
And remember when multiple water-closet situations are present, urinals can be swapped out at a ratio.
Yankee Chronicler
Registered User
Really?
IBC:
IPC:
There are several exceptions, but they are limited, not general. There is no exception for "Because we don't feel like it."
tmurray
SAWHORSE
These clauses are not replicated in the Canadian codes.
This is the explanatory note from Codes Canada to be incorporated in the next edition of the code (PCF 1750):
Although the NBC contains no implied or explicit requirements for the provision of separate gender-identified washrooms, traditional industry practice has been to provide separate washrooms. The Code only requires that certain total numbers of water closets and urinals be provided based on the expected number and demographics of building occupants.
jar546
Forum Coordinator
You are in the Canadian forum, not the I-Codes forum.
steveray
SAWHORSE
Metric code.....
mark handler
SAWHORSE
The Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code were updated in June 2017 to affirm the rights of all people to use a washroom that corresponds to their gender identity. Public washrooms represent one area where binary gender conformity is actively observed and managed.
UNIVERSAL WASHROOM FACILITIES - Government of Alberta
There is a proposed change to the Canadian codes
Proposed Change 1750
From: National Research Council Canada
nrc.canada.ca
UNIVERSAL WASHROOM FACILITIES - Government of Alberta
There is a proposed change to the Canadian codes
Proposed Change 1750
From: National Research Council Canada
Proposed Change 1750 - National Research Council Canada
tmurray
SAWHORSE
It's important to note that the change (PCF 1750) is to the explanatory material only, which is not enforceable code. The intent statements for the base code remain unchanged, so the note clarifies the existing code intent.The Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code were updated in June 2017 to affirm the rights of all people to use a washroom that corresponds to their gender identity. Public washrooms represent one area where binary gender conformity is actively observed and managed.
UNIVERSAL WASHROOM FACILITIES - Government of Alberta
There is a proposed change to the Canadian codes
Proposed Change 1750
From: National Research Council Canada
Proposed Change 1750 - National Research Council Canada
This is reason for my original question. From 3.7.2.2
The explanatory material is not enforceable.
This will not be my hill to die on, and there are more than the required # of WCs, so a non-issue. But I know there are very vocal people on both sides of this political/culture war gendering issue and I could see some liability from a wrong interpretation.
Thanks for your comments.
tmurray
SAWHORSE
It's important to note that the word used there is "sex", which is not to be confused with "gender". Sex refers to the biological differences between males and females, where gender is societal construct. As Inspector Gadget mentioned, there is a difference between males and females in the speed one uses the washroom based on biological differences. The only reason the code has tables for each sex, is for the occasions where we can delineate different gender use with a reasonable degree of accuracy.
Agree on the political/culture war. It has no place in construction codes.
Inspector Gadget
Registered User
If a facility requires three washrooms, it should have three washrooms. I'll police the heck out of barrier-free. Who pees where is none of my professional concern.
I saw a sign that had the stereotypical male figure, the stereotypical female figure and the figure of an alien on the washroom. Below the figures were the words, "We don't care who or what you are. Just wash your damn hands when finished."
Yankee Chronicler
Registered User
My apologies. Didn't notice this was in the Canada area. Me go home now.
bill1952
SAWHORSE
In US but newly renovated (for over half a billion) Geffen Hall at Lincoln Center has all gender neutral restrooms. So does the new Pearlman PAC by the WTC. But, if well designed - which based on price tags I assume they are and they appear to be - they have a lot more fixtures than code minimums to make up for intermission rush. At least gender neutral solves the problem of switching men's rooms to women's for the 95% female audience matinees.
Yankee Chronicler
Registered User
How did they handle it? Are there urinals in all of the toilet rooms? Are the stalls still "stalls," or are they like the airport in Stockholm, Sweden, where all toilet compartments are actually sized like our compartments but constructed with full walls, floor to ceiling, and real doors, with locks?
bill1952
SAWHORSE
Sorry for delay - phone died and new phone and just getting back to speed.
I don't recall any urinals at Geffen and I'd say the stalls were like you describe for Stockholm airport - "rooms" with doors. I don't recall if open near ceiling. Pearlman - based on a glance - seemed to be more conventional. They simply had a policy that anyone could use any restroom. But not sure.
I don't recall any urinals at Geffen and I'd say the stalls were like you describe for Stockholm airport - "rooms" with doors. I don't recall if open near ceiling. Pearlman - based on a glance - seemed to be more conventional. They simply had a policy that anyone could use any restroom. But not sure.
tmurray
SAWHORSE
The Geffen approach sounds like what I have seen here for unisex facilities.
bill1952
SAWHORSE
Discussing urinal compartments in ICC A117.1. Never seen one I know of, but apparently a coming thing, both because of gender neutrality as well as accessibility.
Yankee Chronicler
Registered User
Where in A117.1? I just re-checked A117.1-2017 -- there is no mention whatsoever of urinal compartments.
bill1952
SAWHORSE
In committee meeting. Next edition.
Yikes
Gold Member
It is related to multi-user gender neutral neutral restrooms.
Yes, like Stockholm.
bill1952
SAWHORSE
Well, I'll first say those committee people who referred to the toilet or urinal compartments as "stalls" got told very plainly that these are compartments, and that stalls are for animals.
I believe a urinal could be in any style compartment. The question came to whether a compartment with a urinal had to be of a size for a wheelchair to maneuver. Then the question of the door, and it was pointed out that that if there is a door - toilet or urinal - that it's swing, etc. is regulated, but several pointed out a door is not required on a compartment.
The result will - iirc - require at least a proportion of urinal compartments to be accessible.
It seemed to be requirement independent of whether or not it was a neutral gender restroom, though seemed more than likely to be more in demand in a neutral gender restroom. Of course signage was brought up, but not resolved.
I believe a urinal could be in any style compartment. The question came to whether a compartment with a urinal had to be of a size for a wheelchair to maneuver. Then the question of the door, and it was pointed out that that if there is a door - toilet or urinal - that it's swing, etc. is regulated, but several pointed out a door is not required on a compartment.
The result will - iirc - require at least a proportion of urinal compartments to be accessible.
It seemed to be requirement independent of whether or not it was a neutral gender restroom, though seemed more than likely to be more in demand in a neutral gender restroom. Of course signage was brought up, but not resolved.
Yankee Chronicler
Registered User
Of course, A117.1 is about accessibility, which means that IF {thing] is provided, 'X' percent of them shall be accessible as set forth in section ___ of A117.1.
As of the 2021 I-codes, the requirement for toilet fixtures still requires (subject to some exceptions -- of course) that separate toilet facilities be provided for each sex.
If the feds or the states are going to recognize multiple genders, but the codes use the term "sex," where does that leave us? My state is currently on an amended version of the 2021 I-codes. We didn't amend that section. When I receive plans showing gender neutral toilet rooms (typically Starbucks), I cite this section and require that the drawings be revised to show historically conventional Men's and Women's signage. If Starbucks or Target wants to change out the signs after they get their certificate of occupancy, that's on them.
Does anyone know if IPC 403.2 (and the corresponding section in the IBC) is going to be revised in the 2024 I-codes?
As of the 2021 I-codes, the requirement for toilet fixtures still requires (subject to some exceptions -- of course) that separate toilet facilities be provided for each sex.
If the feds or the states are going to recognize multiple genders, but the codes use the term "sex," where does that leave us? My state is currently on an amended version of the 2021 I-codes. We didn't amend that section. When I receive plans showing gender neutral toilet rooms (typically Starbucks), I cite this section and require that the drawings be revised to show historically conventional Men's and Women's signage. If Starbucks or Target wants to change out the signs after they get their certificate of occupancy, that's on them.
Does anyone know if IPC 403.2 (and the corresponding section in the IBC) is going to be revised in the 2024 I-codes?