Gender Neutral Bathrooms

[Yikes]

Of course, A117.1 is about accessibility, which means that IF {thing] is provided, 'X' percent of them shall be accessible as set forth in section ___ of A117.1.

As of the 2021 I-codes, the requirement for toilet fixtures still requires (subject to some exceptions -- of course) that separate toilet facilities be provided for each sex.



If the feds or the states are going to recognize multiple genders, but the codes use the term "sex," where does that leave us? My state is currently on an amended version of the 2021 I-codes. We didn't amend that section. When I receive plans showing gender neutral toilet rooms (typically Starbucks), I cite this section and require that the drawings be revised to show historically conventional Men's and Women's signage. If Starbucks or Target wants to change out the signs after they get their certificate of occupancy, that's on them.

Does anyone know if IPC 403.2 (and the corresponding section in the IBC) is going to be revised in the 2024 I-codes?

I think you still calculate the # of fixtures by sex as per the IPC to determine the total quantity of fixtures. That fulfills the "provided for each sex" part of 403.2.
Then as each fixture is located in its own separate room or compartment, it is considered a "separate" facility from all the other fixtures.
The thing to work out is, how much of a partition is needed to make it be considered "separate"? Does it need to go all the way down to the floor, and up to the ceiling? Etc.

Concurrent with this is the other social issue of completely private (atmospherically separated) compartments facilities for other purposes: drug use, prostitution, overnight sleeping etc. I've seen this in Southern California and Central Valley communities in the last 10-15 years, so it is not a hypothetical.

 

[bill1952]

I know in the 90s when the idea of the "family restroom" was discussed, the shopping mall reps were very concerned about prostitution. I never heard of these rooms becoming mini bordellos but guess Yikes is saying it has happened.

 

[Yikes]

I know in the 90s when the idea of the "family restroom" was discussed, the shopping mall reps were very concerned about prostitution. I never heard of these rooms becoming mini bordellos but guess Yikes is saying it has happened.

The prevalence varies by location. This may not be a problem in Canada (the subject of the original post), but in towns that do not have a a shared "societal contract" about how to use a 100% public restroom facility that has 100% private stalls, it is very hard to manage.
Look up the history of the "Portland Loo" to find out about the societal challenges they faced.

 

[tmurray]

If the feds or the states are going to recognize multiple genders, but the codes use the term "sex," where does that leave us? My state is currently on an amended version of the 2021 I-codes. We didn't amend that section. When I receive plans showing gender neutral toilet rooms (typically Starbucks), I cite this section and require that the drawings be revised to show historically conventional Men's and Women's signage. If Starbucks or Target wants to change out the signs after they get their certificate of occupancy, that's on them.

You just conflated gender with sex. They are two separate things. Sex is the biological component and gender is a social construct.

Canadian code refers to sex in how many water closets must be provided. However, our code is silent on how genders are served, which leaves it up to the owner/designer.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I saw that a few mini markets that I have inspected before that had two single user toilet rooms switched the male/female signs to neutral after they got the C. O.

 

[bill1952]

You just conflated gender with sex. They are two separate things. Sex is the biological component and gender is a social construct.

So, is the practice of leaving the seat down gender neutral, as I have called it, or sex neutral?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

You just conflated gender with sex. They are two separate things. Sex is the biological component and gender is a social construct.

Canadian code refers to sex in how many water closets must be provided. However, our code is silent on how genders are served, which leaves it up to the owner/designer.

The ICC codes also use the term "sex" for determining plumbing fixture count, and gender neutrality (obviously) uses "gender." So what? You fault me for conflating the two terms, but how are they really different? The dictionary definitions also conflate the two, so when neither is defined in the codes, what are we supposed to do?

sex

1. the physical state of being either male, female, or intersex: 2. all males…

dictionary.cambridge.org

gender

1. a group of people in a society who share particular qualities or ways of…

dictionary.cambridge.org

In fact, until a small subset of society started the current crusade about "gender identity" and "gender fluidity," the terms were largely interchangeable in all uses other than advanced biology. Until the building codes catch up with what society is doing and addresses this issue, I will continue to conflate the two unless the state building inspector issues a written directive to the contrary.

 

[tmurray]

The ICC codes also use the term "sex" for determining plumbing fixture count, and gender neutrality (obviously) uses "gender." So what?

Where different terms exist, the first logical question is if these terms are the same thing. The challenging aspect of this is to defeat the confirmation bias and the substitution heuristic to come to the correct answer, not just the convenient one.

You fault me for conflating the two terms, but how are they really different?

There appears to be relative consensus among gender studies scholars that there is a fundamental difference between the two. There have been cultures dating back centuries that have acknowledged these differences, including indigenous cultures here in North America.

The dictionary definitions also conflate the two, so when neither is defined in the codes, what are we supposed to do?

Your own definitions demonstrate the difference.

Sex: the physical state
Gender: behaviors

The definitions you provide for sex does not include behaviors, nor does gender include anything related to the physical state of the person.

I am sensitive that you (just like all of us) are statute bound to enforce the code and cannot stray from that.

 

[tmurray]

So, is the practice of leaving the seat down gender neutral, as I have called it, or sex neutral?

I guess it would be "sex neutral" because we are referring to the actual biology.

"Gender neutral" as a term just sounds better than "sex neutral", doesn't it?

 

[Inspector Gadget]

So, is the practice of leaving the seat down gender neutral, as I have called it, or sex neutral?

I pee sitting down at home.
I have XY chromosomal plumbing.
Nobody has died, and in 16 years, The Lady has never once griped at me about leaving the seat up.

Leaving the seat down makes the women in my life happier....

 

[bill1952]

I guess it would be "sex neutral" because we are referring to the actual biology.

"Gender neutral" as a term just sounds better than "sex neutral", doesn't it?

I agree. Who'd of think you ever needed to know this.

 

[bill1952]

Leaving the seat down makes the women in my life happier....

THIS!!!!
(I forsee signage stating such in gender neutral compartments eventually being required.)