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GFCI Receptacle Behind Refrigerator

ICE said:
I agree with you if the GFCI is required .... however, if the GFCI is not required but installed anyway, readily accessible is not required.
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Why do you even want to go down this path? Just for the sake of being a troll on an obvious question? If you install it, then it must meet the code. Except where you work.
 
jar546 said:
Why do you even want to go down this path? Just for the sake of being a troll on an obvious question? If you install it, then it must meet the code. Except where you work.
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You come on like a tall dog but you have no code to back up the bark. Show me the code.
 
bill1952 said:
Odd the metal fridge can be right next to sink and no GFCI if the receptacle is 6' from sink edge. I wonder if that's a projected plan dimension or if you can gain some distance by putting it near the floor.
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2017 and 2020 NEC 210.8(A)(7) specify that the 6' is measured to the "top inside edge of the sink." So I'd say it's a 3D measurement--take a 6' length of string, and if you can put one end at the receptacle, and the other end anywhere along the top inside edge of the sink, 210.8(A)(7) covers that receptacle. So that can affect wall receptacle near a bar sink outside of a kitchen or bathroom, for example.

bill1952 said:
Is a toaster or coffee maker an obstacle? Is a big microwave oven
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As a matter of practice, I would say that the distinction revolves around whether the receptacle is installed for a specific appliance or set of appliances, which would be evident at the time of final inspection, versus a general purpose wall or counter receptacle. So a built-in toaster or coffee maker, or appliance garage, yes the appliance may be an obstacle that would preclude installing a GFCI behind it.

Cheers, Wayne
 
ICE said:
You come on like a tall dog but you have no code to back up the bark. Show me the code.
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I would guess at 110.3B....not that I am going to read instructions or listing, but Shirley you have....

(B) Installation and Use.

Equipment that is listed, labeled, or both shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
 
ICE said:
however, if the GFCI is not required but installed anyway, readily accessible is not required.
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Agreed. The relevant text from the 2017 NEC (easiest version to cut and paste, no relevant change in 2020 NEC or 2023 NEC):

2017 NEC said:
210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel shall be provided as required in 210.8(A) through (E). The ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a readily accessible location.
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By using the definite article in the second sentence, it is clearly referring to the GFCI that may be required by the previous sentence. If the intent was for the readily accessible requirement to apply to all GFCIs, the second sentence would read, for example, "Any ground-fault circuit interrupter . . ."

Cheers, Wayne
 
steveray said:
As supported as anything else in the NEC...
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That's totally circular logic--any 110.3(B) citation you might use that for could instead be a direction citation to the requirement in the NEC. And there's nothing in the NEC that says a voluntary-installed GFCI has to be readily accessible.

Cheers, Wayne
 
jar546 said:
No one needs to look any further than Article 90 of the NEC. If you can't see that, we can't help you.
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Article 90 has plenty to offer. Can you be a bit more specific? You know, narrow it down to a code that backs up your contention that all GFCI receptacles, no matter where they are located, shall be readily accessible. And I'm not looking for we to help me... just you.
 
ICE said:
Article 90 has plenty to offer. Can you be a bit more specific? You know, narrow it down to a code that backs up your contention that all GFCI receptacles, no matter where they are located, shall be readily accessible. And I'm not looking for we to help me... just you.
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Just look at the installation instructions from the manufacturer; they all say that the product has to be installed in accordance with all applicable codes, and all applicable codes require readily accessible.
 
jar546 said:
and all applicable codes require readily accessible
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I'm asking for just one. Is that too difficult? You're dancing all around like sweat on a hot griddle but you can't give a straight answer. If you think I am a troll... well smack me down like one.. with a code.
 
jar546 said:
all applicable codes require readily accessible.
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No, the NEC does not require being "readily accessible" for voluntary GFCIs, only for the mandatory GFCIs specified in 210.8. See post #30.

That said, it would obviously be best practice to keep them all readily accessible whenever possible.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
That's totally circular logic--any 110.3(B) citation you might use that for could instead be a direction citation to the requirement in the NEC. And there's nothing in the NEC that says a voluntary-installed GFCI has to be readily accessible.

Cheers, Wayne
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So if I install a circuit that is above what is required I don't follow the NEC? Or a light? Can't believe you guys are putting me on Jeffs side...
 
steveray said:
So if I install a circuit that is above what is required I don't follow the NEC? Or a light? Can't believe you guys are putting me on Jeffs side...
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Most NEC rules are written in a way to apply to all branch circuits, all circuit breakers, etc. The rule in 210.8 on GFCIs being readily accessible is not. It's as simple as that.

Cheers, Wayne
 
jar546 said:
they all say that the product has to be installed in accordance with all applicable codes
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All right for manufacturers to note that but not designers - but that's from another thread.

I wonder if their should be signage with all GFCIs stating no instructions. Maybe use the 60 pound as a limit, like delivery people. Beds, book cases, China cabinets, large screen TV's, sofas - so many obstructions to consider.
 
jar546 said:
Yeah, hard to believe their flawed, literal logic
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Your unwavering belief in an idea in opposition to the fact of the matter is disappointing. You want to provide a forum that you can take pride in knowing that the information is correct. Has pride gotten in the way of doing that?
 
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wwhitney said:
Most NEC rules are written in a way to apply to all branch circuits, all circuit breakers, etc. The rule in 210.8 on GFCIs being readily accessible is not. It's as simple as that.

Cheers, Wayne
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Because you are so nice and I hate electrical we will agree to disagree....
 
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