steveray
SAWHORSE
As much as I would love to agree with you...I also like to be right....I agree with you if the GFCI is required .... however, if the GFCI is not required but installed anyway, readily accessible is not required.
As much as I would love to agree with you...I also like to be right....I agree with you if the GFCI is required .... however, if the GFCI is not required but installed anyway, readily accessible is not required.
Why do you even want to go down this path? Just for the sake of being a troll on an obvious question? If you install it, then it must meet the code. Except where you work.I agree with you if the GFCI is required .... however, if the GFCI is not required but installed anyway, readily accessible is not required.
You come on like a tall dog but you have no code to back up the bark. Show me the code.Why do you even want to go down this path? Just for the sake of being a troll on an obvious question? If you install it, then it must meet the code. Except where you work.
2017 and 2020 NEC 210.8(A)(7) specify that the 6' is measured to the "top inside edge of the sink." So I'd say it's a 3D measurement--take a 6' length of string, and if you can put one end at the receptacle, and the other end anywhere along the top inside edge of the sink, 210.8(A)(7) covers that receptacle. So that can affect wall receptacle near a bar sink outside of a kitchen or bathroom, for example.Odd the metal fridge can be right next to sink and no GFCI if the receptacle is 6' from sink edge. I wonder if that's a projected plan dimension or if you can gain some distance by putting it near the floor.
As a matter of practice, I would say that the distinction revolves around whether the receptacle is installed for a specific appliance or set of appliances, which would be evident at the time of final inspection, versus a general purpose wall or counter receptacle. So a built-in toaster or coffee maker, or appliance garage, yes the appliance may be an obstacle that would preclude installing a GFCI behind it.Is a toaster or coffee maker an obstacle? Is a big microwave oven
I would guess at 110.3B....not that I am going to read instructions or listing, but Shirley you have....You come on like a tall dog but you have no code to back up the bark. Show me the code.
Agreed. The relevant text from the 2017 NEC (easiest version to cut and paste, no relevant change in 2020 NEC or 2023 NEC):however, if the GFCI is not required but installed anyway, readily accessible is not required.
2017 NEC said:210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel shall be provided as required in 210.8(A) through (E). The ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a readily accessible location.
Then your citation is unsupported.I would guess at 110.3B....not that I am going to read instructions or listing,
No one needs to look any further than Article 90 of the NEC. If you can't see that, we can't help you.You come on like a tall dog but you have no code to back up the bark. Show me the code.
That's totally circular logic--any 110.3(B) citation you might use that for could instead be a direction citation to the requirement in the NEC. And there's nothing in the NEC that says a voluntary-installed GFCI has to be readily accessible.As supported as anything else in the NEC...
Article 90 has plenty to offer. Can you be a bit more specific? You know, narrow it down to a code that backs up your contention that all GFCI receptacles, no matter where they are located, shall be readily accessible. And I'm not looking for we to help me... just you.No one needs to look any further than Article 90 of the NEC. If you can't see that, we can't help you.
Just look at the installation instructions from the manufacturer; they all say that the product has to be installed in accordance with all applicable codes, and all applicable codes require readily accessible.Article 90 has plenty to offer. Can you be a bit more specific? You know, narrow it down to a code that backs up your contention that all GFCI receptacles, no matter where they are located, shall be readily accessible. And I'm not looking for we to help me... just you.
I'm asking for just one. Is that too difficult? You're dancing all around like sweat on a hot griddle but you can't give a straight answer. If you think I am a troll... well smack me down like one.. with a code.and all applicable codes require readily accessible
No, the NEC does not require being "readily accessible" for voluntary GFCIs, only for the mandatory GFCIs specified in 210.8. See post #30.all applicable codes require readily accessible.
So if I install a circuit that is above what is required I don't follow the NEC? Or a light? Can't believe you guys are putting me on Jeffs side...That's totally circular logic--any 110.3(B) citation you might use that for could instead be a direction citation to the requirement in the NEC. And there's nothing in the NEC that says a voluntary-installed GFCI has to be readily accessible.
Cheers, Wayne
Yeah, hard to believe their flawed, literal logic (that of zoning) has us as allies. Sheeesh, what's next?Can't believe you guys are putting me on Jeffs side
Most NEC rules are written in a way to apply to all branch circuits, all circuit breakers, etc. The rule in 210.8 on GFCIs being readily accessible is not. It's as simple as that.So if I install a circuit that is above what is required I don't follow the NEC? Or a light? Can't believe you guys are putting me on Jeffs side...
All right for manufacturers to note that but not designers - but that's from another thread.they all say that the product has to be installed in accordance with all applicable codes
Your unwavering belief in an idea in opposition to the fact of the matter is disappointing. You want to provide a forum that you can take pride in knowing that the information is correct. Has pride gotten in the way of doing that?Yeah, hard to believe their flawed, literal logic
Because you are so nice and I hate electrical we will agree to disagree....Most NEC rules are written in a way to apply to all branch circuits, all circuit breakers, etc. The rule in 210.8 on GFCIs being readily accessible is not. It's as simple as that.
Cheers, Wayne
That's not a reason to ignore it.I hate electrical
I don't ignore it, just don't agree with how you and WW enforce/ interpret it....That's not a reason to ignore it.