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Give me a hand folks, help me out

ICE

ICE

Oh Well
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
12,914
Location
California
and quit calling me at 8:01 am or better yet, wait 'till 9:00 and I'll be gone. There's a reason I don't turn on the phones until 8:15 and later and that reason is you. My day is 15 to 18 inspections. I have no clue where those inspections are until I walk in that morning. It's morning and I'm in a great mood. So there I am juggling the inspections, trying to fill out a route slip and marking up copies of the Thomas guide. Then you call.

All of you call. You all have a life and I am a disruption. You want, expect and yes, sometimes, demand a time of arrival. When I tell that I know where the first one is but after that it's just a guess, well some of you can be a real pill.

If I give you a time, it is a window. A window doesn't have gradients. It can't be "closer to 11:00 or closer to 2:00". It's 11 to 2; do I really have to tell you all about the nuances of building inspection? I'm not the milkman. Give me a break! It's my fault if I'm early and my fault if I'm late OK. It's my fault that the water heater inspection turned out to be a framing inspection and all the roughs. It's my fault that I was stood up twice in a row. It's your fault that I have to drive 65 miles a day because you're too cheap to hire more inspectors.

Try to understand that the job I do for you is important. If you can't grasp that concept then try to be nice and accept it because it is important to me.

That water heater that grew to a frame and roughs may have gotten 20 corrections. I see corrections faster than I can write them down, so please quit talking about anything. Stand aside and let me work. Where you work do you have strangers jabbering away right next to you?

Be ready for me. Have the plans and job card. Don't tell me that they are in "contractor's" truck and he can't be more than five miles away so sit tight and you will call him. Well not to worry, I can give you a dozen corrections without the plans and Oh I'll give you more time, some other time. Do the math and see how much time I have with you. It's not much. I would think that you would make every effort to get the most out of that time.

Heres a hint: If you have a porta-potty your chances are better for a mid morning inspection.
 
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In a former jurisdiction we would just say today. Concrete pours got dibbs on our time. Everybody else just waited for us to get there. AM or PM was inspector's call.
 
Oh, you forgot, I called in a footing for this morning around 9:00 a.m. and I have already ordered the concrete and the truck is sitting here spinning, It is 9:05 where is that D*** inspector.

Been there, done that. I agree with jar, too many inspections to be thorough.
 
30 minutes per inspection is not "too many" for residential. How do you count them? We try and do all the roughs at one time so that is 3 inspections at one stop Framing, Mech & Plumbing. We are a small jurisdiction so 6 miles one way from the office to any inspection. We can give them within the hour time frames.

Previous jurisdiction was 1,100 sq miles for 2 inspectors and yes it was AM or PM. If a contractor wanted a specific time then he would get the first one in the AM or the first one after lunch. Depending on travel it would average 4 to 12 inspections per day. Agricultural Electrical Pump service or single wide MH set up and electrical service where the majority of inspections requireing travel.

A 1,200 sq ft single story track home is less time than a 6,500 sq ft 2 story McMansion or commercial projects
 
Believe it or not - we still give an exact time. For every inspection. Not easy, and yes, we're late sometimes (oh... you wanted framing and mechanical and gas test, and plumbing rough, but you just said electrical, sure...I understand.) We have a fantastic office staff that juggles our schedule, has a good idea of what the inspections should take, and everything goes through them. Always.

And 15 inspections a day is not unheard of around here. Sometimes 20 or more per inspector. And yes, its too many.
 
jar546 said:
Way too many inspections per day. No way you can be thorough enough with that many inspections. You have an impossible job.
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It sounds worse than it is. The clerks are supposed to stop taking requests at 15 but they make mistakes and I get calls from panic stricken contractors with a roof open etc. With cutbacks, I am the only inspector in an office that used to have three. Of course work has slowed way down too and there are the days with only 10 inspections.

Out of 15, 4 might be re-roofs, 4 might be quickies like water heaters etc. and the rest can involve some time. I seldom stop for lunch. My wife is angry about the lunch. I do my best to winnow the field before I leave in the morning. Take the guy that calls for a time because he's not going to be ready until late pm, him I give a time, the next day. And then there's the reprobate contractor that called for inspection without paying a re-inspection fee that's been levied. He gets a time too, never. The truth is that I prefer to be busy.

Thorough you say? I'm not missing much but I know I'm not catching everything. I know because I'll be three inspections away from an HVAC inspection and remember a correction I forgot to write. I also take lots of pictures and will spot things at home that I missed from those pictures. Then I've got to call someone and add to the list. And then there's that nasty correction that I missed the first time and it's staring me in the face on a re-inspection. I just love it when a contr. tells me that it's not fair to write an additional correction because I missed it the first time around. I tell them that it's sorta obvious that he missed it every time he's been here. The contractors think I'm thorough and at least once a week one shows up at the counter complaining that I unloaded on him. 70 corrections in a day is not unusual and some days I can't squeeze out 25.

The downside of being so busy is the pace I set. I am writing corrections before I get inside, while I'm waiting for the plans or a ladder and as I'm heading for the door. My bosses want me to have quality time with the people. You know what I mean, exchange pleasantries and all that. Thing is, I'm all business. My mind is in overdrive. Another boss request is to stop writing at twelve or so. They get tired of the overload complaints. I usually don't stop until I run out of things to write but lately I have cut it off with a note that says "too many and I haven't even gotten to the second floor" or " we are at 15 and I haven't even looked at the plans". That way I know where to pick it up the next time but I always write the corrections that have already landed.

I think back to the days when I had the hammer and somebody else had the correction pad and I am amazed at how things have changed. Those were simpler times. We spoke the same language. We got to know each other. We broke bread together. Inspectors were treated way different than they are today.

It's real slow for me now because I'm off on a medical leave until July fifth. When I return, I have been asked to take an NFG under my wing and train her to be an inspector. She is sharp and has certs but has been stuck in rehab for years. I look forward to the change in pace and there is a plan to get another inspector to fill in so I can have fewer inspections and spend time teaching. I bet I relearn a bunch of stuff I forgot in the process.
 
jpranch said:
I'm not seeing anything new here? Just the job.
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Sorry to hear that. I see or learn something new daily.

Or did I misunderstand you and you are talking about this thread? Note the category of the thread. I am trying to spur some action from contractors. This is all new to them. So far it's not working. I have other ideas about getting them involved but I'm still pondering and that cat will be in the bag a while longer.
 
Our department has seperate building inspector, electrical, HVAC, & plumbing inspector. We schedule our appointments at the exact time too. We ask for a 24-hour notice, but if we have time openings same day we will schedule them. This actually has worked out very well. Thirty minutes per inspection is far fetch in our area. We wouldn't be doing our job. An average home here is 2500 square feet and doing a framing inpection would take a minimum 45 minutes to a hour and larger homes have taken up to 2 hours. Commercial jobs will take longer depending on size and what type of construction. Our footing, foundations, slab, waterproofing and residential finals will take 30 minutes or less. Every place is different and how they handle their appointments and inspections. We have a 3 time open office time of 45 minutes for call in inspections and questions needed answered. I do wish we would take one away for more inspection time. The most inspections in a day if 30 minutes per inspection would be 12, but have done 16 before in one day.

Darren Emery said:
Believe it or not - we still give an exact time. For every inspection. Not easy, and yes, we're late sometimes (oh... you wanted framing and mechanical and gas test, and plumbing rough, but you just said electrical, sure...I understand.) We have a fantastic office staff that juggles our schedule, has a good idea of what the inspections should take, and everything goes through them. Always. And 15 inspections a day is not unheard of around here. Sometimes 20 or more per inspector. And yes, its too many.
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I think back to the days when I had the hammer and somebody else had the correction pad and I am amazed at how things have changed. Those were simpler times. We spoke the same language. We got to know each other. We broke bread together. Inspectors were treated way different than they are today.
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You are the one who can make all this possible. Sure being the only inspector is time comsuming but take an hour or so each week and spend it with a contactor on their job and teach. Over time your correction list will get shorter.
 
Jobsaver said:
I'm with JP. Its just the job. Goes with the territory of being an inspector. Why so much attitude?
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I do come off a bit strident don't I. I am north of 50,000 inspections in 15 years so perhaps I feel entitled to a unique attitude. I'll work on that and tone it down so as not to offend. Or maybe not. Ya probably not. Some people are easily offended and I never know who they are until they speak up so I'll just continue to apologize. Sorry!
 
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The attitude is not unique: it is especially prevalent among governmental employees and subcontractors, and is common as grass these days among those having a sense of entitlement. I catch the infection myself from time to time because with each year of service as a municipal inspector, it becomes a bit harder to remember what it was like to have a real job that involved meeting deadlines, pleasing my customers with quality workmanship, and maintaining a good attitude reflecting a sense of appreciation for the work awarded.
 
mtlogcabin said:
You are the one who can make all this possible. Sure being the only inspector is time comsuming but take an hour or so each week and spend it with a contactor on their job and teach. Over time your correction list will get shorter.
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You know, if they are there, speak English and want to learn, I'm teaching. I don't always simply write the corrections and split. Of course those are the best inspections to have but I rattle on the whole time if there's someone willing to listen. You may not have noticed but I do like to talk.

I see the same crews now and then and they will point out all the things they didn't do wrong this time that they did do wrong at the last job, so I know I am getting through to them. While doing a footing inspection I will get all the way to roof sheathing for some of these folks. It all depends on the experience level I detect. For sure I clue them in on new codes like electrical requirements they are sure to miss.

I advise them to save all of the correction notices. They don't have a code book but they will at least have a list of dead-bang violations. I carry many handouts. From footings to radiant barrier, handouts are great. There have been footings that were so completely wrong, that the word no and a handout was all I gave them. The trick is to give them the info before they do the work and we fall short in that regard.

My motives can be altruistic or selfish. If I like the crew, I try harder. If I don't, I give them a performance but they are in the cheap seats. Either way, they all get their money's worth. Even the bandits.
 
I've tried to convince many contractors/builders/framers, what have you, that it is in THIER best interest to own a code book. Some buy it, some don't. They may not learn it any other way. I put section numbers on my correction/violation tickets at one of my last jobs, the BO didnt like it , however, if the builder had a code book he could look it up, and it did show i wasn't " shooting from the hip". You might give up a saturday, hold a seminar in your jurisdiction for the contractors to educate them on fdn, frame, inspections, what the "most common" misses are, where they are in the book, WHY they are in the book. That stuff goes along way in the public relations side of "serving your community". I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, just ideas and ways to make it easier all the way around. I've seen that it's alot easier to "catch flies with honey, than it is with vinager" for what it's worth, there's my two pence.
 
Jobsaver said:
The attitude is not unique: it is especially prevalent among governmental employees and subcontractors, and is common as grass these days among those having a sense of entitlement. I catch the infection myself from time to time because with each year of service as a municipal inspector, it becomes a bit harder to remember what it was like to have a real job that involved meeting deadlines, pleasing my customers with quality workmanship, and maintaining a good attitude reflecting a sense of appreciation for the work awarded.
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Excuse me? You missed the bull's eye thinking you've pin-pointed my attitude. Common as grass? I doubt there are that many of me out there. Infection of entitlement is it? You include forgetting what it was like to have deadlines, pleasing customers and so on. Like I do not have that now. You go so far as to impugn my workmanship. And that's after I halfheartedly apologized.

And what's up with saying I lost my memory? Have I lost memory of the pride I felt in my job building airplanes? How about the grueling work I did as a logger? Do I still remember stocking grocery store shelves? Did I forget all the people I've hired? Can't I remember 110 degrees, covered in red chalk from plating and detailing? Nope, I still remember, all the way back to roughing in houses with my father at age 12.

You know so little about me from the exposure of a few paragraphs that you lack standing.
 
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From codeworks

I've seen that it's alot easier to "catch flies with honey, than it is with vinager"

My mother had a concoction of honey and vinegar that was a cure all. If you were bellyaching and trying to get out of school, you had to down a glass. Awful stuff. It worked on me and now and then I offer it up, metaphorically speaking. There is a time for both and to lose track of that diminishes us as a society. Situations that cry out for vinegar seldom respond to honey and some are sweet all the way. I don't set the stage, I just walk onto it.
 
ICE, I was not offended at all. I have a hide tougher than boot leather. Jobsaver got it. My point was that it comes with the job. Here we give them am or pm plus nothing. When pouring concrete we do our very best to accommodate the contractor. On occasion a contractor will need an inspection right away and we do our best to get there as long as the contractor isn't calling for an emergency every day, week, or month.

It comes with the job.
 
codeworks said:
I put section numbers on my correction/violation tickets at one of my last jobs, the BO didnt like it , however, if the builder had a code book he could look it up, and it did show i wasn't " shooting from the hip".
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As a contractor, one of my pet peeves is an inspector or plan checker that won't provide a code reference for corrections. I don't mind for simple corrections, like a typo or something that was an honest mistake, either on the plans or in construction. But it seems that a large percentage of the corrections that I recieve without a code reference are not based on code at all, but rather "shooting from the hip." That's not to say that I don't make mistakes. I learn something new every day, and hardly a week goes by that I don't find a section of code that I missed or misread. And in those cases, I appreciate the code reference so that I can make sure I read up on the requirement. But more often than not, the correction doesn't have a code section because it doesn't exist.

In my opinion, a code reference should ALWAYS be provided for a correction. It cuts down on the number of manufactured corrections, and provides the contractor with an oportunity to learn.
 
RBK said:
As a contractor, one of my pet peeves is an inspector or plan checker that won't provide a code reference for corrections. I don't mind for simple corrections, like a typo or something that was an honest mistake, either on the plans or in construction. But it seems that a large percentage of the corrections that I recieve without a code reference are not based on code at all, but rather "shooting from the hip." That's not to say that I don't make mistakes. I learn something new every day, and hardly a week goes by that I don't find a section of code that I missed or misread. And in those cases, I appreciate the code reference so that I can make sure I read up on the requirement. But more often than not, the correction doesn't have a code section because it doesn't exist.In my opinion, a code reference should ALWAYS be provided for a correction. It cuts down on the number of manufactured corrections, and provides the contractor with an oportunity to learn.
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I couldn't agree more, or less. It's hard enough to know most of the code and it would take a savant to memorize all the section numbers. Well we could look them up for you and that would take how long? Did you get 2 or 22? Do we have that much time? I encourage everybody to call my office if they question a correction. The assistant office manager is a whiz with a code book and she likes to talk. We have dozens of engineers of all types that will weigh in on the difficult ones. I utilize them myself a couple times a week. I never leave anyone thinking that I am the last word.

Sure it would be great if we wrote a section # for everybody so they could look it up but that's like smog checking all the cars to catch 1%. Another way to look at it is: that's not how I learned the code. I did by reading it, over and over again. I had the benefit of seasoned instructors but distill the process and it comes down familiarity. You don't have to know it all either, nobody does. If you can remember that there is a code for that you can eventually find it.

I've written bogus corrections. I'd be what, the King of inspection if I hadn't. I'd rather be me. I usually recognize my mistake and make the call. The point is, you should make the call.
 
Providing a code reference is the proper way but may not be the practicle. A lot of time I will reference just the Section number such as . Directional signage does not comply with IBC section 1007 and leave it at that. In a plan review I will be specific

Directional signage does not comply with IBC Section 1007.10 and copy and paste the actual wording in the review comments. But then again I have the time and resources at my finger tips to provide the information. Not possible in the field. Some use a check list to accomplish this in the field but I personally do not like them
 
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