God Awful ADA

[conarb]

Today I made reservations for Christmas dinner for my family in a restaurant named Vic Stewart's named after a dining car built in 1901, it will be the last time since the restaurant is closing after the first of the year because of the God Awful ADA, the dining car is incorporated within the restaurant and it's pretty hard to get wheelchairs into dining cars.

This is all part of what's now known as the "cultural Marxist" agenda of egalitarianism that you guys enforce as code requirements, at least other manifestations of cultural Marxism, like black rights, Anti-fa, feminist rights, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitem are not enforced by gestapo like code tactics, makes you want to push them out of their stinking wheelchairs, yet it's not their fault, they are being used by the egalitarian cultural Marxists to achieve their one-world agenda, RIP the Vic Stewart:

 

[steveray]

And I am sure they have not made enough money since 1901 to improve their facility.....Lame excuse.... that being said, it sounds like the dining car is not the only dining area? In that case I doubt the ADA would require access to the car area, I would think under reasonable accommodation that other areas would fit the bill....But I am not an expert.

 

[mark handler]

And I am sure they have not made enough money since 1901 to improve their facility.....Lame excuse.... that being said, it sounds like the dining car is not the only dining area? In that case I doubt the ADA would require access to the car area, I would think under reasonable accommodation that other areas would fit the bill....But I am not an expert.

Not that old, not deemed historic.

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/10/24/walnut-creek-depot-poised-to-go-from-steaks-to-retail-shops/
Plans to partially demolish, rebuild and expand the existing 6,936-square-foot former train station, ...
The depot was first built in 1891 near where the railroad tracks...
The building was acquired by the city, which sold it to Herrington, who moved it a short distance south.
Vic Stewart’s steakhouse opened there in 1989; it is still open today, but will close sometime early next year, Herrington said.
The additions to the building would be in keeping with its railroad theme, which has survived seven remodeling projects.
The “Victor B Stewart,” a century-old rail passenger car that is essentially an addition to the east side of the old depot building that serves as a private dining room, will likely be removed from the property as part of the remodel. Herrington said the car, used as a dining room, is not Americans With Disabilities Act-compliant.
The city didn’t want the old car....

 

[mtlogcabin]

God had nothing to do with the ADA and your complaint so why do you want him to condemn the ADA

 

[JPohling]

Weak excuse. I am sure they can make that area of the dining room accessible with enough effort.

 

[conarb]

The “Victor B Stewart,” a century-old rail passenger car that is essentially an addition to the east side of the old depot building that serves as a private dining room, will likely be removed from the property as part of the remodel. Herrington said the car, used as a dining room, is not Americans With Disabilities Act-compliant.
The city didn’t want the old car....

Of course the city didn't want it, what would they do with it, not make it a restaurant that people could enjoy a dining experience within, the best they could do is spend taxpayers' money to get it declared historic and make a museum out of it. As it is people (like me) pay money to dine in it so it's a piece of history that is self-supporting, or maybe even profitable.

Erasing history for political purposes is repugnant, in my school they are taking portraits down from the walls to bury the fact that all prior honored professors were white.

Still, I failed to notice the racial uniformity of the portraits when I passed them by. But I suspect their whiteness was all too visible to generations of students of color who gazed with some unease at those images when they walked to and from class. The thought “I don’t belong here” must have gripped many of them for a moment at least.

I am happy to say that the photographs have now come down. No one with a sense of proportion could think that the pictures’ removal was a big victory in creating a more welcoming environment for students of color in the Graduate School of Education. But I’ll take small successes whenever I can find them. The faculty can find another and better way to honor their predecessors.

Eamonn Callan is the Pigott Family School of Education Professor in the Graduate School of Education and, by courtesy, a professor of philosophy.

And my point here is the force of this discriminating law is being enforced by the codes and building departments, as well as the fear of an outrageous lawsuit that could bankrupt any business. You don't help disabled people by harming able bodied people, you don't help students of color by harming white people, we are living in a time where books are being banned, statues torn down, and names are coming off buildings all in the name of egalatarianism and cultural Marxism.

 

[jar546]

This initial post is so blown out of proportion it is not even funny. The language of the header and the misleading agenda is rather pathetic and quite frankly, I'm surprised. There are always options and just one mentioning of the ADA does not mean this was the driving force. You took a mole hill and tried to make a mountain out of it with your spinnerama move. This is total BS. The city did not want the car and whoever owns the property is trying to make more money by developing it to fit modern times.
Boo hoo.

 

[ADAguy]

Hope when I reach 80 I am not as bitter as the old man.
Turned 70 today and am more concerned about "T" and the Holy Land then some old parlor car.
ADA benefits us all but then most of you know that.

 

[conarb]

Bottom line, because a gimp can't get into the dining car I can't get in either.

 

[fatboy]

wow...........

 

[jar546]

Bottom line, because a gimp can't get into the dining car I can't get in either.

You really let out who you are as a person. Do you always have to find something to be angry about? Did you have to twist the real story and post what you did without factual information? I know you are outspoken against ADA but this...... this was a surprise. I thought more highly of you than this.

 

[Msradell]

Bottom line, because a gimp can't get into the dining car I can't get in either.

Just Wait to you are that gimp and can't get someplace!! You then will be on the other side of the coin complaining why everyplace doesn't comply with the ADA. It sounds like in this case the owner is just using that as an excuse during his remodeling project. Probably very difficult for servers etc. going up and down into that car anyway. The problem for accessibility could be very easily solved with minimal effort if he really wanted to.

 

[conarb]

You really let out who you are as a person. Do you always have to find something to be angry about? Did you have to twist the real story and post what you did without factual information? I know you are outspoken against ADA but this...... this was a surprise. I thought more highly of you than this.

I have not twisted the story, I was going to post the whole story but since the picture of the dining car was in a Flash program I had to wait a long time and click to allow it, knowing that a lot of computers do not allow Flsh anymore I decided to take a picture of the dining car as it passed by so you could see it.

Where have I twisted the story? I know the owner, he has been high up in Republican politics here, in fact, Chairman of the Republican Central Committee for many years. I haven't talked to him in several years and it could be that he wants to move in another direction, but the fact is that the ADA compliance is forcing the issue.

Just Wait to you are that gimp and can't get someplace!! You then will be on the other side of the coin complaining why everyplace doesn't comply with the ADA. It sounds like in this case the owner is just using that as an excuse during his remodeling project. Probably very difficult for servers etc. going up and down into that car anyway. The problem for accessibility could be very easily solved with minimal effort if he really wanted to.

At my age that day may well come, in fact I've talked to many friends in wheelchairs, walkers, and using canes, none of them like it either, one said the curb cuts were fine but the rest of it wasn't worth the hatred they get, I don't even agree with the curb cuts being fine, having pushed friends in wheelchairs I find it no burden to turn around and pull the chair up over the curb. I have never in my life asked for special consideration, I've always paid my own way and proud of it, I can remember going to college when friends went to Cal because it was free, I went to Stanford and worked my way through because I was too proud to take from the government. Between the years 1901 when the car was built and 1990 when the ADA was passed how did disabled people manage to get on trains, ride in them, and dine in dining cars? I've had that experience having traversed the country by train in 1939 and 1945, I remember the dining cars well, neither my wife nor my son have ever ridden on a train, or dined in a dining car, so this will be their last chance to get a small taste of the experience, future generations willl never have this opportunity as we erase history in the name of political correctness. There are several steak houses in Walnut Creek where the disabled can go, why do they have to go in this one?

 

[MtnArch]

The Napa Valley Wine Train (which utilizes vintage rail cars) addresses how they accommodate disabled passengers/customers here:
http://winetrain.com/faq/#Wheelchair

 

[mark handler]

The Napa Valley Wine Train (which utilizes vintage rail cars) addresses how they accommodate disabled passengers/customers here:
http://winetrain.com/faq/#Wheelchair

Those that do not believe In the value of something for themselves will find any and all excuses not to do it, blame it, or to criticize it.

 

[conarb]

The Napa Valley Wine Train (which utilizes vintage rail cars) addresses how they accommodate disabled passengers/customers here:
http://winetrain.com/faq/#Wheelchair

What is nice about that train is that they have made reasonable accommodations that are apparently acceptable, but it is a train and not part of a building, just a few:

1. There is no way to access the Vista Dome car without climbing stairs. Inside the Vista Dome car there are seven steps, each 8 inches tall. There is a handrail on the right side only.
2. Moving in a wheelchair while the train is in motion is difficult, and guests who require a wheelchair should move only when advised to do so by our staff.
3. If a guest with a mobility preference wishes to move about the train, they must be assisted by a member of their party.
4. At this time we cannot accommodate guests with mobility preferences on any of our tours.
5. The restrooms on board the train are not wheelchair accessible. You will need to be able to get out of your chair in order to use the restrooms.

Despite the unique challenges presented by our historic train, many guests with mobility preferences ride the Napa Valley Wine Train. If you have specific needs or concerns, please contact us by phone at +1-800-427-4124

The Vic Stewart has been around for 117 years for people to use and enjoy, but now it is leaving us because of tyrannical codes and laws, we could have done as Canada has done and only apply handicapped standards to new construction where it would harm virtually no one.

Those that do not believe In the value of something for themselves will find any and all excuses not to do it, blame it, or to criticize it.

And then there are those who delight in telling others what to do and how to live their lives.

 

[mark handler]

Haters Gonna Hate

 

[ICE]

The point behind what conarb said is overshadowed and lost because of the words he chose. But hey now, there is no surprise Jeff.....it's conarb.....he has all of the English language at his fingertips, yet he uses inflammatory rhetoric. Nothing new about that.

The issue of ADA has more than one side but if one is on the side that rejects ADA, castigation and ridicule go with that. That's too bad in that there are obvious flaws with the tact that society has followed. Rather than embrace technology which would aid the disabled in superior fashion, we went down a rabbit hole.

There is more to the ADA code than us mere mortals can digest....it takes a Casp. A recent new market/gas station had the Casp dude nail them for $3k. If he was slow it was a $500 per hour payday.

I have witnessed projects that were eliminated by the ADA code.....be it the cost, the aesthetic, or physical impossibility, The ADA shot it down.

There are awful ramps aplenty. Ramps that cost as much as the TI that brought them. I witnessed a 300k sq.ft warehouse with a TI of 600 sqft in a back corner result in 100' of ramp. It was done for coder geeks that made it all happen for a gamer company. Oh and there is a long ramp at the entrance as well but the ADA demanded a ramp for the three coders and their Segways.

There isn't a healthy balance of the ADA sides. It's all or nothing. No room for a divergent view.

Had society used a trifling of what's been spent on ADA compliance on R&D, wheelchairs could fly.

 

[mark handler]

.... It's all or nothing. No room for a divergent view.

And that is not true, Ice have you read CBC Section 11B-202.4?
I grant hardships ever week based on CBC Section 11B-202.4.

We get BS as to how long Vic Stewarts has been open in the train station see
http://www.vicstewarts.com/walnut_creek_history.php
Dec 1993 not the BS of when the rail car was built
and they have other locations
and they chose to close and not to relocate this Particular Restarant

 

[ICE]

"There isn't a healthy balance of the ADA sides. It's all or nothing. No room for a divergent view."

That has to do with the argument....not the actual code. Notice the use of the word "hater".

 

[mark handler]

"There isn't a healthy balance of the ADA sides. It's all or nothing. No room for a divergent view."

That has to do with the argument....not the actual code. Notice the use of the word "hater".

It Is all or nothing for some, Just like any topic
Look at today's politics
They are not the main stream.
Most people understand compromise.

 

[ICE]

ADA should not be enforced by a building dept. While a building dept seems like a logical candidate, as you say Mark, most people understand compromise. Along with understanding compromise comes an expectation that they will experience compromise. There is scant room in ADA for compromise.

With all of the code that I enforce, I can point to a reason for each individual code. There is a benefit that's recognizable which the builders and owners can understand. They are the beneficiary so in the long run I can convince most of them that my enforcement is for their benefit. It's not like that at all with ADA. They see it as a transfer of their wealth to the disabled community. There is no payback other than the minuscule wealth that returns. They are getting screwed and they know it.

And not just the cost of construction......lawyers finagled a way to cash in and others.......The business I mentioned earlier is a flat lot, big wide doors and huge bathrooms. Why on Earth would there be a need for a CAsp report. Well that's because there's a thousand things to measure and if any one of them is off by an inch a shyster can find a teat to suckle.

 

[conarb]

ADA should not be enforced by a building dept. While a building dept seems like a logical candidate, as you say Mark, most people understand compromise. Along with understanding compromise comes an expectation that they will experience compromise. There is scant room in ADA for compromise.

Number One the private right of enforcement must go, and all of it must go, it legalizes extortion. Friday I was at my mechanic's shop and he was telling me that the tire shop in front of him was hit by that attorney from Sacramento in a wheelchair for non-compliant bathrooms, now he's holding his breath, he asked me if the landlord shouldn't be responsible? I told him the law is unclear, both landlord and tenant end up being responsible. There are several automotive businesses there, each business is allocated so many parking spaces, each has hired a line painting company to identify their spaces, now the question becomes which ADA labeled spaces belong to which businesses? Some have too many, some none or not enough, so he asked me if disabled people can use any handicapped space they find? All I could think to say was "Probably yes, for one business to complain that customers of another business are using their handicapped spaces is highly unlikely, every business is scared to death of this law." Then of course he asked: "But what about that "so and so" in the wheelchair from Sacramento?"

 

[north star]

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There is absolutely no need whatsoever to use inappropriate
language on the Topic Heading, or in other parts of the responses.
I changed it to be less offensive.

C`mon **conarb**, ...please watch your language !

This IS a quality and respected Forum.......Please do not diminish
Jeff's and others efforts with vulgar and inappropriate language.

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